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Author Topic: EPA position on Listeroid  (Read 16023 times)

Geoff

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 01:15:15 PM »
My take on the whole government control thing is that it will mostly affect the bigger companies.
The EPA has grown so big and the area of "control" so wide that all the small stuff will go under the radar.
The big engine shops and any commercial buildings will have to comply.

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/nsps/cinsps/dieselengineprop_fs.html
snip
The rule would take effect in three, increasingly stringent stages:

   1. The first is a transition period to control emissions from diesel engines built after this rule is proposed but before the 2007 model year. Owners or operators would comply with this regulation by purchasing an appropriate engine and by operating and maintaining the engine according to the manufacturers' instructions.
          * In most cases, the owner/operator would purchase a certified nonroad engine for stationary use and that would be sufficient to comply with the regulatory requirement.
          * In less likely cases, the owner/operator would purchase a non-certified engine and would have several options (using manufacturers emissions data or previous test results on a similar engine, or stack test data) to demonstrate compliance with the pre 2007 emission limits.
          * In all cases, the information which demonstrates new engine compliance and the appropriate maintenance records must be kept on site.

   2. Beginning in model year 2007:
          * Engine manufacturers would be required to certify that all new, modified or reconstructed stationary diesel engines meet the stringent emissions levels for NOx, PM, CO, and HC that are required for the same size engine and model year for nonroad diesel engines in the categories known as Tiers 1 through 4, with a few exceptions.
          * Stationary emergency diesel engines would be required to be certified to meet emissions limits through Tier 3 and also Tier 4, however, Tier 4 requirements for them do not require add-on controls.

   3. Beginning with 2011 model year engines, add-on controls would be required to achieve the emission limits for non-emergency engines.

I have found conflicting emission's data on NOx from using SVO and WVO but using 100% Bio diesel seems to pass no problem. Some real world testing of stock roids for a base line would be great. Reducing NOx so as not to increase smog and keep or improve the  BSFC for me would be a personal goal since my long term plan is to be off grid and an alternatively fueled prime mover I am building is a big part of the it.

Doug

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2007, 10:01:27 PM »
Take the injector out and ship it over as a compressor.....

Doug
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listeroidsusa1

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2007, 02:23:16 AM »
Doug, I've already proposed modifying the CS to ship as a compressor.(Really, for use as a compressor similar to the Worthington)It comes down to ethics. The engine sales in India are not as simple as one might think. First, when an order is placed the payment goes to their bank as a irrevocable letter of credit. The engine company takes a draw on the funds to build the engines, and once the order is finished the bank representative verifies that the order is correct & complete and releases the remainder of the funds. Also, the local Chamber of Commerce inspects and verifies the order. Only when the order has had all of the i's dotted and the t's crossed is the order released for export. The shipping company will also verify the contents. ( They don't want contraband or a bomb any more than DHS does, especially on THEIR ship) A single engine might not go through this process but a large order will. The possibility of importing the engines modified as air compressors is practically nil, unless you have an entire process that can be circumvented by crooked dealers, and if so, would you really want to deal with them?

Doug

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2007, 02:27:22 AM »
Sounds like a plan Mike lol.

I'll order a container of Listeroid blocks converted to compressors....

Some quack has probably asked if they could do this already lol!!!!

Doug

I'm not interested just being smart ***
« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 02:28:53 AM by Doug »
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dieseldave

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2007, 05:32:38 AM »

   The Listeroids being stationary engines,why not just pipe the exhaust into an array of underground pipes. After a certain distance you could go to plastic pipe as the exhaust would now be cool enough. Let nature take care of the NOX plus other emisions!

    And it would be quiet as well.      Plants like CO2.

dieseldave

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2007, 06:39:19 AM »

    Gravel or something similar. It would depend on the soil type and being able to drain excess water in a heavy rain. Some thing along the lines of a septic field.   I like the idea of no visible smoke,smell or noise.

Doug

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2007, 09:42:17 PM »
I wonder what would happen if you piped the exhaust into the sewer line?

Would you hear the engine threw your plumbing?
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mobile_bob

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2007, 11:28:07 PM »
if you guys like the concept, do a search on the forum
there was some discussion on underground exhaust systems

also there is a canadian coop of farmers who have got a grant from their government
to put the diesel exhaust underground from their tractors when they plant
the nitrogen compounds replace something on the order of 80%of the fertilizer requirment
of what they had to use before.

the co2 is directly useful to the plants, as is the nitrogen compounds, and from what i gather the co
is also used by some plants which have mutated to synthesize it.

and the plants grown are edible and have no issue with the byproducts of combustion

probably ok as long as you are not pumping a bunch of oil out the exhaust.

i know i am definetly planning on do just this sort of thing.

quieter, no smoke, smell and less of a heat signature from the black helicopters and satellites :)
and the plant life seems to really thrive on it as well.

a truely win.. win solution

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

dieseldave

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2007, 05:00:24 AM »

     Those Russian Tomatoes next year are going to be KICKASS!!!!

dieseldave

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2007, 06:22:18 PM »

   I have a question:   How come the EPA has got a problem with Listeroids?   What about those chinese diesel generators that are coming over here. You cant tell me that they meet EPA specs, and Listeroids dont!!

gpkull

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2007, 06:50:07 PM »
shhh as soon as its known that they can also burn what the  g man cant tax it wont be long. again they want the buck . the money lost will be the end nothing else. regulations are to keep taxes feeding the pockets. burn anything that isnt taxed theres a problem. emisions are nill. the buck stops were they decide

vwbeamer

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2007, 07:13:58 PM »
 1000s of air cooled VW engines and parts are built and imported every year. It's a million dollar industry and they absolutely meet no emissions at all. Some companies build and sell 100s of engines every year.  Non meet any kind of emissions at all. check{url]www.cbperformance.com[/url]

They need to meet no emissions because they are replacement engines for pre emission controlled cars.

I can understand not being able to import a new lister engine to make a new gen set, but I want to import a  replacement   ;) engine and parts fro my old pre emission Lister gen set.

Why would this approach not work?

I also know that summit racing, Elderbrock, and many others import, build  and sell engines, again, they meet no emissions standard. The more i think, the more examples I think of complete new engines being built, imported or sold that do not meet any EPA standard. the only stipulation is that they are for off road use or installed in pre emission controlled cars.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2007, 07:20:29 PM by vwbeamer »

Doug

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2007, 07:21:55 PM »
Rules by people with good intentions.....

Sadly the Listeroid has meet a tougher standard because its water cooled than a chinese explody air cooled genset.
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vwbeamer

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2007, 07:44:31 PM »
Chevy Water cooled engine parts are imported by the 1000's .

An engine is an engine.  I don't understand why i can legally build, or import a complete new non emissions controlled replacement engine for my pre emissions controlled car, lawn mower, go cart, etc and not import a completely new non emission controlled replacement engine for my old pre emissions gen set.

People here would have me believe that if I had an original lister and the block cracked, it would be illegal to import a new block?

Or if i had an original lister gen set and the engine wore out, it would be illegal to import a new replacement engine?

Why can I legally import a non emission controlled replacement engine for my car, my lawn mower, chainsaw, tractor, etc , and not my gen set?

I'm just pointing out, that if someone wanted to legally import these engines, he would/should be able to do so, because other industries do it.

The difference is the engines are marketed and sold as a replacement engines for pre emission controlled car or other IC powered machine. VS as a new industrial engine for a general purpose.

You know, My Lister gen set is all original, i just had to replace the gen head, the mount  and the motor. :P

Doug

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Re: EPA position on Listeroid
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2007, 08:00:22 PM »
Its leagal to import parts thats what Utterpower does, you buy all the parts you need and build and engine.

If you have an old engine that needs parts you can import it no trouble
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