Using Listeroid/alternator combo as a battery charger

[mobile_bob]

a typical woman says she needs a new pair of shoes, when she has 100 pairs in the closet.

yup, there are wants, and there are needs


yes honey i do need another generator!

lol
bob g

[phaedrus]

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/dr_series.html

trace DR2412 just under a grand - solves problem.  suggest using a 300 watt  pure sine wave inverter for the computer though.

running an automotive alternator involves considerable windage loss and considerable other losses. Worse, the charging curves are primative an ineffecient. modern combines inverter charges have a microcontoller with logic that does a better job.

DR series can be stacked to give 220 vac.  read up on the dope at url above.

[rmchambers]

I'm writing this response on a computer powered by a DR3624 - you don't need pure sinewave power since most things nowadays have switching power supplies and don't seem to care.  They say laser printers complain but I have ink jets.

I think UPS's are pickier about the incoming power but I don't use a UPS other than the 8 batteries in the basement.

[mobile_bob]

not all automotive alternators are created equal, rather some are better suited for the task at hand

i would not recommend most of the car alternators even though some are high output, usually they taper back very quickly
and when they get hot they drop off very fast and die early.

on the other hand the hd truck alternators are built a good bit tougher, but even in that group all are not equal, some are less desirable than others

i like the high output, low rpm units such as the leece neville 175 amp units and of course the larger  units up to 320amps
i also like the prestolite loadhandler series 160amps units, which are large case units and produce good power at low rpms

however,, none of the automotive regulators are suited to charging a battery bank, unless you are running the engine 24/7

replaceing the automotive regulator with a controller from balmar, xantrex, or amplepower will allow for much better control, temp sensing
temp compensation, custom programming for soft start to reduce engine shock loading (saves belts) and give true 3 stage regimes that are customizable for
a specific application.

i like the balmar, but for the money the xantrex controller can be had for about a C note on ebay and is a good value.

efficiency will be about mid 50's % range, so this is why i like the 50/80 regime, kick the batteries hard and get it done as quickly as possible.

also don't wrinkle up your nose too quickly re the mid 50 efficiency, and think that because some inverter/charger manufacture claims 90% plus
some of these claims are about as solid as gas line magnets!

for about the price of a mx60 controller you can get a new prestolite 160amp alternator and a xantrex controller from ebay and also new.
and still have enough money to go to mcdonalds

and i don't like combo units, an inverter should be just that an inverter,, not a charger too
a charger should be a charger and not an inverter
jack of all trades and master of none is what you end up with.
if one side fails, it can make the other side useless as well

i like seperate and redundant components, that are user repairable or servicable
a hd alternator is user servicable or locally servicable for most folks,
and at a hundred bucks a xantrex controller is cheap enough to have a spare.

not many inverter chargers can deliver 140amps continuous if at all

and lastly

the inverter charger will have to take in power from either the grid to allow charging or from a generator
presumably this will be an st genhead
if we assume the st head to be 85 % efficient
and the inverter/charger to be 85% efficient
the net efficiency is at best only 72 or so efficient
then factor in the additional run time to get the same amount of amp/hrs input
and you will be within a sight of the mid 50's anyway.

just my .02

bob g

[t19]

Actually you have the worse of bad situations.  The square wave has a number of problems with switch mode power supplies.  The Square wave puts additional harmonic distortions that cause the switch mode PS to run much hotter, add to that the garbage that the switch mode bounces back down the line to the UPS... causing it to run hotter, and of course messes with anything else on the same line.

Cheap UPS is ok for lights and stuff like that that, but you need to spend the bucks and get a sine wave for switchmode Power Supplies

[phaedrus]

roger that!

The experienced advice of an electronic engineer friend with extensive hardware experience plus personal experience that's been rather costly has made it quite clear to me that a sinewave is essentisal to some of the gizmos we use - like switching PS and the 'puter tower power input.

It's true that avoiding combined devices - like the DR2412 - simplifies troubleshooting and so forth. The Trace stuff is so reliable however that I don't expect serious trouble. I have on the agenda adding a descrete alternator-charger, but only intend to hang the drive belt on the house wall in case the device is needed, eg the DR fails.

[Tom]

I've got an sw2512 that was used for computer backup for quite some time and that is a good unit. It ran all my ups units well too. It was connected to an Onan 6.3kw LP genset and I used to charge and run large loads all at the same time. My experience is that when the inverter will sync to the generator and combine both outputs the sum is greater than the parts. It does the soft (really soft) starts and can be set to limit the draw on the generator too.

The only thing I don't like about this unit is that it hums. I'm planning to purchase a set of 3.6 kw outback inverters soon for our home.

[matteas]

I was under the impression that the 5kw ST head was a little underpowered to run an inverter/charger. At this point I'm considering all options. What's the largest inverter/charger a 5kw ST head can run efficiently? Assuming the inverter/charger is used to charge the batteries.
I'm assuming the ST head puts out 3000watts @ 25amps.

[Tom]

The st puts out 5000 watts if it has enough power behind it. When being run by a 6/1 you can expect 3000 to 3500 watts continuous. The inverter will take any amperage you can give it up to its limit and the batteries need for a charge. You can also limit the draw the inverter takes from the generator to obtain the maximum operating efficiency of your generator.

[mobile_bob]

Tom:

your sw2512:

is it one of the trace/xantrex units?

is it one of those units that weighs around a hundred pounds?

if both of the above it true, how much do you want for it?

bob g

[Tom]

Yes, yes and at the moment it is not for sale. I may be needing it to power my father in-laws mobile home when it arrives on the ranch.

[getterdone]

what im doing is this; i have a trace 24v 3600w inverter. 48v fork truck batt; 8,100amp 12v batteries. i use a 24v delco 90amp. alt.[leave the voltage regulator in place.] also4500w gen head . make the system 24v. cut the batteries,[arrange them into two banks.] or three. charge the banks with the alt. every month or so run the gen head to supply power to the trace...need to equlize[ every so often.] you don't need a pure sign wave. i'm running on this set up now .[no problems.] no flickering lights this way. the trace has all kinds of charging settings, and charge at 70 amps,or whatever you set it at. your thinking to charge direct works great and having a gen head installed also is [in my thinking the way to go.]  good luck   it'll work fine.

[matteas]

getterdone- nice to see some real world experiecnce with this setup. Thanks.

[bitsnpieces1]

  There used to be quite a few of the mil. surplus 24v DC genenerators around.  I think they were one bearing types, but, could be made to work as self-support shaft.

[matteas]

I'm considering using a 24V battery bank. Will I then need a 24V alternator? maybe a stupid question...