Water/ propane injection of wvo fueled listeroids

[skeeter]

I've got a heater on a dedicated fuel filter that gets the temp up to 145 - 150 deg. F, before the ip. My 225 deg. heaters are wrapped on the high pressure fuel lines, just before the injectors. If you touch the locknut at the injector stem, you'll get burned. I think I've done all I can on this part.

[skeeter]

gpkull -

Also, keep in mind, this is only happening on one cylinder. The other cylinder acts perfect. Head/ water temps measure approx. the same. Linkage was adjusted initially for equal exhaust temps (within resolution of adjustment). I believe with all I have done, either the spray pattern of one injector isn't quite right or something else unique to that cylinder or head is causing the problem.  I also remember when I first stripped it down, their were radial tool marks on one of the valve seats on that cylinder head. At the time, I smoothed it out pretty good by hand with 1000+ grit abrasive.

After the second full day of running, I believe that the acetone is having a positive effect. Compression feels alittle stiffer, exhaust temps  might be starting to creep up. Maybe this is just wishful thinking, but if I works, and I can use just use this intermittantly until my next scheduled decoking (300 - 400 hrs more running), I'd be happy. I think I'm going to give it a few more days and if things don't straighten out, I'll pull it apart again. .

Long term, this is not my solution. Next time I decoke, I'm going to pay much closer attention to the valve seats and valves, and will also measure everything else. I will not reassemble until everything is perfect. I will also probably swap injectors if nothing  else definitive is found, just to see if this problem moves with the "suspect" injector.

[jimdunne]

Water injection works, but it is a pain. AND, if it ever screws up, you can get in real trouble. Yup, towed 22,000 pounds total, 15,000 miles using it behind a 6.5. Been there, done that.

Propane injection works well, and the engine will let you know if it gets too much; it will make VERY unhappy sounds! It is expensive, but easy to regulate. Been there, done that.

Heat is best, costs little and works very well. Heat the fuel, and then heat the line to the injector, just as you say.

For the truly filthy fuels, use PURE acetone, (Sally Beauty Supply?), it is dirt cheap, and you only need 1-3 ounces for 10 gallons of fuel. For  even dirtier fuel (old diesel engine oil), use up to 5 ounces/10 gallons or so, NO more. Acetone is Beta-Keto-propane, just oxygen, hydrogen, and carbon. 

Of course the other solution is to filter, chemically modify, etc, etc, etc, the fuel you are using. I like to do SOME of that, and use acetone to help resolve the rest of the issues (carbon buildup).

For me, simple, effective, and cheap is best.

[craig c]

Hi, just raise you compression ratio to 18 to one , with more combustion temp the fuel will burn better and very little carbon , all carbon is unburnt fuel , your engine will run smoother and quieter and will sound if it is not working as hard, which it will not be , with less stress on parts in engine . check out www.veglisteroidnz.co.nz  thanks .

[jimdunne]

Sorry, my GM 6.5 TD is already 22 to 1, and this is a lot of claptrap.

Let's all raise the Listeroids to 22 to 1, and maybe they will burn the sh** out of the dirty ULO. And then they will last forever.

Not, not, not!!!

[Doug]

Trouble from what I understand is many of these Indian engines are running beloow even what Dursley intended.

I see no harm in a small compression increase like 1 point. From 17 to 18 seems like a good idea at least for my Petteroid, and I intend to try it on my firts rebuild.....

[gpkull]

if carbon build up can be corrected by bumping up compression and a little acetone we got it licked. i have asked before if the riod will burn wvo 95% of the time do i need to change timing.  the reply was pretty straight forward. when the consumption of fuel is to the min. you have found the sweet spot. but at the time carbonwas not an issue. havent tore down and dont have aton of hours but if i can avoid it my time can be used some where else. some of the knowledge here just cant be bought . just used to doing things the hard way and thats gettin old and now more so than ever expensive.

[gpkull]

my powerline manual gives instructions for start with the change over valves but doesnt state before and after compression ratios. maybe as owners we need to adjust compression with the fuel thats being burned. we all know the beast will burn almost any thing combustable but long time results are few. i mean really long time.

[phaedrus]

Reduced soot formation in modern engineered engines is, I've read, primarily a result of improvements in the injectors and injection pressure curves.

This seems to imply that an injector designed for the fuel you're using would be good. It also implies that a modern electronic injection system would be good.

The costs associated with that approach might be very high, except that it may be that the electronic injectors from a modern automobile could be adapted.

One would lose the simplicity of the Lister design, but gain economy and clean combustion.

It's not an all or nothing way - simply adapting a better injector with a finer spray pattern might yield satisfactory results - it's an approach that would seem to begin with a visit to the injector-pump guy.

[skeeter]

I must say, alot of fuel for thought.

Update - After 21 hours running since adding acetone as a fuel additive, I believe I am seeing positive results now. Exhaust temps are now approaching (and relative to each other) where they were before they started to change. Engine is also sounding better, with just the normal valve train "clicking", and not the other abnornal sounds I had started to hear. I'm not sure of any differences in fuel consumption. It looks like this may be the ticket for me, at least until my next decoking. I may reduce the amount of acetone to 1 oz/ 10 gals, after a few more days if things remain on track.

Overall, this tells me next time when I decoke, to pay more attention to the seats and valve mating surfaces. This is where I think the underlying problem may be.  I think I will also try to determine actual compression of each cylinder, and make adjustments to spacers if needed, to fix compression to 18:1, or there about. I am also starting to believe that their is a good case to be made, for the use of acetone as a additive, especially if alternate, dirtier fuels are being used.

[phaedrus]

Skeeter, I wonder if the acetone is just cleaning the injector tip passages and making that, presumably fouled injector, spray properly rather than dribble.

When there a coking problem in one cylinder of a twin I'd suspect a fouled injector.

[MeanListerGreen]

I have heard you can overheat WVO and cause your injector to coke up.  Just shop talk.  I can't verify it as I don't run WVO.  I have also heard you can add 1oz. of turpentine per gallon to raise the cetane rating.  That would surely help with carbon build up.  I would try that as well.  Good luck.

[Doug]

Some of the guys also use RUG to thin there RVO.

Seems to me this might also help and be worth trying....

Doug

[phaedrus]

What is "RUG"?  And what's "RVO"? Sorry, maybe I'm just dumb....

[rmchambers]

Regular Unleaded Gasoline = RUG
Recycled Vegetable Oil = RVO aka SVO etc

Mind you RUG is sort of an oxymoron.. either its regular or it's unleaded right?