clone parts on original

[dmp]

Wondering?  Anyone have experience?  Clone head would be particually interesting!

David

[snail]

David,
      A lot of the cloned parts will fit, particularly rings , bearings etc( assuming you don't have TRB's!). The original heads are held down by 7 studs , clones that I've seen have 5 .I'd bet you a beer that if you simply unscrewed the extra 2 studs, the clone head would fit.I've just compared the head gaskets and I think that's the case. The originals
had dowels on the 2 of studs so you'd either have to leave these out or machine the head. Come to think of it, the original exhaust guide screws in, whereas both guides are pressed in  on Indian machines.If you're rebuilding an original, I would have no problem in using some Indian spares, at least in the bearing and gasket departments
      The next question is why you'd want to change heads? Do you have an original that's completely stuffed? I've just had a couple re- machined, and it's got to be a seriously damaged head that can't be fixed .Were you thinking of converting to DI? That would take a bit more doing ( pump and injector at least, I'd also investigate the cams and timing) I've never seen a DI clone so the head may not even fit.

Cheers

Brian
     

[dmp]

Brian

This is a retorical question.  I don't have a particular curcumstance. 

Just want to know if current Indian parts perform as well as Dursley parts would. 

Not looking for opinion.  Fact, through experience.

David   


















replacement parts must be comming from India.                                                                                                                     

[snail]

David,
      OK, I should be able to answer your question in a few years . I'm finally(!) close to finishing my original 10/2 with Indian bearings.
     Visually, there's little difference between Indian and genuine head gaskets and bearings. I suppose that time will tell if there are differences in materials.
     Not sure where the genuine spares are made but I'm sure that I read somewhere that some come from Turkey.This may have been for Listers other than the CS.
    I'm sure there must be lots of "hybrid" 6/1's out there, whether the owners know it or not!

Cheers,

Brian

[listeroil]

I have been running a Jkson indian cylinderhead on my genuine lister 8-1 engine for 12 hours a day for the last 9 months and it has performed perfectly.
Everything lined up except the tappet screws needed screwing in a long way and the locknuts fitted on the bottom instead of the top. This could have been remedied by machining a small amount off the rocker pedestall.
The Indian head does not have a recess for the 2  cylinder block dowels. I just removed the dowels from the cylinder block.
All other parts fitted perfectly injector co plug valve,gear, manifolds and studs.
I am very happy with my Indian cylinder head so far.

Mick

[dmp]

Brian and Mick,

Thank you both for your response.

Your observations help me to try to get a handle on listeroid quality.  Many here have issues with that.  It seems that
when individual parts are obtained, they're of better quality than found in a completly assembeled engine.  Murky to me.

Wondering, ...when Lister still made these engines, did they have parts made in India and by the same manufactures in
Rajkot we see today?

David

[Doug]

No....

Lister had an agreement with Kirolskar (KOEL or Kiroliskar oil engines limmitied ) in the 1940's to produce the CS engines.
I don't know when this expired.
KOEL also manufactured the Petter AV series ( and this is where the current Petteroids evolved from, or rather most are copies of KOEL designs or third generation modified clones ).

KOEL also designs some large engines for trucks and ships and heavy equipment, but they still build the 6/1 cs as the KS6 and AV1 ( they still call it an AV1 too ).

Current clones they produce are the HA series a clone built under liscenece from Duetz of the FLW 912 series.

Way off topic but the first Listeroid was a KOEL engine. Some parts were probably imported at least inthe beginning but now its all Indian.

That much said the KOEL KS6 and the Lister CS 6/1 were bothe being produced at the same time for many years but I have read nothing about Lister buying parts from KOEL.

Doug
 

[Eco Diesel]

I have some India made 114mm chrome lined cylinders here. (will probably use on my Lister 12/2 as there is quite a ridge at the top of each original cylinder) These India made cylinders appear to be virtualy identical to my original Lister 12/2 cylinders. I have to say that the spare parts quality has been fantastic!These cylinders are drilled and threaded for the 7 bolt head and even have the removable water jacket plates. They don't have the locater rings as was mentioned. I just recently recieved my newest engine order which I requested the 6/1s be supplied with 7 bolt heads and chrome lined cylinders. I will be bringing in some spare heads for these soon and compare as well.

[dmp]

From what I gather, original CS6/1 has not been manfactured by Lister in UK since 1984.  Seems parts would be
coming from Indian suppliers.  Twenty-three years.  Where are the parts coming from?  They must work.  Where
does all the trouble come from with assembeled engines?  If the parts are good, then assembly would be to blame
for these problems.  It would make sense to have better assembly.

Had an instructor in HS for Latin class.  He'd look at our sometimes vacant stares and say,
"Casting Pearls to Swine".

no offense, Rajkot,
David

[Doug]

Not all parts are equal....

From whom are the Indian builders getting parts?

Parts in my soares crates were all neatly repackaged in plain boxes soI have no idea who made them in many cases.....

Does Supreme make a good cam and gears, or is there a better one?

Who makes the rods and cranks with the Swastika?

There are all kinds of makers marks and alloy numbers but the fact is anyone with a drop forge and the right dies could make a rod and to save a few pennies they could use any steel they like.....

IF I had the choice I would specify exactly what brands of parts I wanted but since we don;t know the Indian market we have to rely on the honesty of the builders who we also don't know.

Then there is the logistics for the builder to try and get all the parts we want VS what is easily available.

If I had the Choice I would buy a Petteroid built from KOEL parts, but then maybe if I had the choice I would be better off spending money on a KOEL engine.
Trouble is no dealers in India willing to export the engines......

The cheap parts can work or be made to work in most cases but like all things you have to fidle about withthings a bit and be prepared to accept a cheaper Indian liner will wear faster than a real Lister one or a chrome Indian liner might not seat the rings well ( a problem brought up from way across the pond )

Doug

[Tom]

In fact I just received a brand new in box genuine Lister fuel filter, from George B., made in guess where.......India. The only difference I can see from the roid filter on the engine is they put vent screw in a location that will really get out all the air.

[Doug]

How interesting.....

We can now buy a quality filter from India baring the  LP brand....

I wonder what this means?
Has LP decided to move some production to India, have old links to KOEL been rekindled or is there an ISO 9000 suplier in India that can make an oil filter fit to be sold by an LP dealer?

Doug

[snail]

Doug,

I'd imagine this has something to do with it:

http://listerpetterindia.com/

Whilst I doubt they're manufacturing CS parts (no proof though!) i'm sure they have friends who do....

Cheers,

Brian

[Doug]

Could be, but if that were the case you would be able to get CS parts that you can't

A trip to the LP dealer told me all CS ( and AV Petter parts are obsolite and orphaned ).

You also have to wonder if they are actualy building engines in India. If so it wouldn't be in Rajkot where the smaller clone makers could have easier access to parts and see the production. 

[snail]

Doug,
      I can only speak from my own experience,but a lot of cs parts do seem to be available, at least in Oz. Bearings, rings, valves and guides are all available off the shelf in Lister Petter packaging.Could be old stock,and I doubt that you'd find any castings . From what I can glean, engines are only assembled in India, as opposed to being manufactured there.

Cheers,

Brian