Acetone in Diesel Fuel???

[Stan]

Anybody heard of this one? 

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Stan

[rbodell]

Anybody heard of this one? 

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

Stan

Maybe my concerns don't aamount to anything, but I been thinking on this.

despite what it says, I think I would want to test some gasket material and o-rings in acitone and see what happens to them. I used to use that stuff when I was doing fiberglass work and it is some pretty scarry stuff.

Another thing is that it evaporates pretty fast. It seems like it would evaporate before you burned a tank of gas.

[phaedrus]

The overall vapor pressure, i.e. evap rate for a liquid, is proportional to the vapor pressures of the various materials dissolved in one another. This means that a small percentage of acetone in a large volume of something with a low vapor pressure, like diesel, will pretty much just lie happily in solution. The overall vapor pressure will rise, but only a little. Once well mixed, i.e. dissolved in the fuel, the acetone will stay there - years, with only slight losses to evap. In a closed tank vented to atmosphere it's not an issue.

Whether of not it's a good idea to add acetone to fuel - well, I don't know, but I bet it's a waste of money. Propane, which is much cheaper, will dissolve too, though you have to do some plumbing to make a mixer, and there is always some risk of fire. People say that adding propane as a gas to the intake air, in the correct amount, will increase efficiency and lessen the formation and deposition of soot in a diesel. I have no idea whether or not they're right, and also no idea whether or not dissolving propane in the fuel would be beneficial, neutral, or harmful.

I plan to add propane to the intake air, though, if that works, I may use hydrogen in a second phase experiment. I can generate the H2 by electrolysis as needed, whereas the propane requires, obviously, pressurized storage and handling.

Whatever you discover, please share - it's an interesting line to investigate. regards, P

[rpg52]

I don't have any personal experience, however, some old geezers on another forum having to do with Detroit Diesels said that they had used it for years at 3 oz./10 gallons - used in highway trucks.  They said it reduced the soot and carbon and the injectors stayed cleaner.  I bought a gallon and plan to test it but haven't yet.   
Ray

PS - at 3 oz./10 gal., one gallon of acetone would treat 420+ gallons of diesel.  IF it works, likely not a big expense.  Does it work?

[Bluecometk]

  I can remember my father using it in our boats and our cars. He had a wooden box with about 50 small glass bottles with cork gaskets and metal screw on caps. He would pour a few bottles in the tanks of the vehicles at fill up. He had his own little filling station for the bottles in the garage. He would come in the house stinking of acetone and dare I say cigarettes. I cant believe he smoked while filling the bottles. I don't want to think he was that naive. He was an engineer though so anything is possible;D I can remember him taking down the mileage and fuel amounts at the filling station and mumbling that's better or worse. All I know is we never had the vapor locks like the neighbors did.

[Stan]

We always used Isopropal alcohol (sp?) to keep from freezing gas lines up at -40deg.  Worked like a charm! Never even heard of using acetone until a truck driver friend recommended it.
Stan

[Doug]

Speaking from personal experience using solvents to remove tar from cracked heavy oil:

Actone, toluene and hydrazine will loosen everything they can desolve and gum up filters and injection system parts. This may happen with pump diesel.....

Second hand info from my dad in the way back files:

In the 70's my dad used a combustion catalyst ( I recall the 2 gallon cans said they contained toluene, still had some of it into the 80's, I used to in go cart fuel where it did nothing for me ) added to the fuel tanks for a Bus depot where he worked.
I do recall he said there were problems at first crude clogging filters untill the tanks cleared. The busses, were a mixed fleet of school and coaches. Again I do recall him saying the combustion chambers were cleaner, a sign the toluene or what ever else was in the stuff was doing something.

Doug

[villageidjit]

Whether of not it's a good idea to add acetone to fuel - well, I don't know, but I bet it's a waste of money.
Whatever you discover, please share - it's an interesting line to investigate. regards, P

Phaedrus,

I have read a lot of La Pointe's work and believe him to be a little radical but interesting. 

Interesting enough that I tried using acetone in my auto engine.  I found, after some controlled testing, a fuel mileage increase of around 8% to 13% on several gas driven vehicles.  Two of 8 vehicles showed no measureable difference.

I suggested acetone to a friend with a Ford F450 diesel and although he was not willing to make controlled mileage tests, his engine sounded quieter and it certainly became a "powerstroke" instead of a "powersmoke" during wide open throttle usage.  Although he does not always remember to add acetone, he claims that he can feel the difference and tries to remember on the next tank (each time).

I found 2 to 2-1/2 oz per ten gallons of regular unleaded gas gave me the best results in my vehicles, my friend uses 8oz in his (F450) 38 gallon tank of diesel.

With the going price of acetone being about ten cents per ounce in gallon quantities, twenty cents per ounce in quart quantities - I strongly recommend trying it.  I can even see a difference in my lawn mower!

Vic

[phaedrus]

Well, Vic, at that cost, if it's a waste of money the absolute amount of waste is insignificant - I hadn't thought about it in those terms.

I read a little of LaPointe's claims, maybe he's right... Understanding of combustion dynamics is, I understand, not trivial or a resolved science. Surprising outputs from what seem to be minor changes at the input end are common in complex processes.

Anyway it looks like can't hurt to try using it and see what happens. I definitely have soot (in the 6-1) that needs to go away.

We have a 7.3 mechanical in a F350 Ford. We use a quart of 30# ND type SA lube oil per fill up per tank, which is a hunch-based response to the LS fuel we now must buy here in California - which has, I'm told, less lubricating quality than the designed-for fuel. Given that I am willing to spend the 2 dollars per quart for that, the cost of (2 oz/10 gallons) acetone is insignificant. I'll make up some additive oil-acetone "charges". Saving fuel in the 6-1 is, in absolute terms, minor, but fuel economy in the truck is another matter.

Best, P

[villageidjit]

Anyway it looks like can't hurt to try using it and see what happens. I definitely have soot (in the 6-1) that needs to go away.
We have a 7.3 mechanical in a F350 Ford. We use a quart of 30# ND type SA lube oil per fill up per tank, which is a hunch-based response to the LS fuel we now must buy here in California - which has, I'm told, less lubricating quality than the designed-for fuel. Given that I am willing to spend the 2 dollars per quart for that, the cost of (2 oz/10 gallons) acetone is insignificant. I'll make up some additive oil-acetone "charges". Saving fuel in the 6-1 is, in absolute terms, minor, but fuel economy in the truck is another matter.
Best, P

Phaedrus,

I hope I did not mislead you on the pricing of acetone, one gallon of acetone sells for around $11.00 to $15.00 which I rounded to ten cents per ounce - quarts cost around $5.00 to $7.00 which I rounded to twenty cents per ounce.

By the way, the acetone added to my mower at 1 ounce per 5 gallons of gas did "decarbon" the engine the engine.  I say that because my mower(s) have always shown carbon in the combustion chamber but the one I have been using acetone in had no discernable carbon when I removed the head.

Anyone having ANY concern might be well advised to try acetone in a mower or other "cheap" engine.  I personally have NO concern after several gallons and thousands of miles of acetone usage.

Vic

[Doug]

Not realy an issue in most cases, but adding things to gas might require some minor carb adjustments....

I have no way of guessing how much it might lean the fuel mixture but this might be part of whats going on in carburated engines.

It will cause higher temperature in spark ignition engines, I learned this the hard way burning up a few engines. It also will destroy some the diapharms in Tillitson carbs like the older HL series and desolves the varnish on some cork floats. May also loosen the paint inside the cranks case and intake of older OMC products ( expensive leason ) I don't know anyhing about its anti knock properties.

Doug

[rbodell]

I think the reasom it sometimes affects the MPG and spmetimes not, is like when you add hydrogen. Some sensors sence its presence and some don't. The oners that sense it, reduces the amount of gas. the ones that don't, do not reduce the amount of gas.

[phaedrus]

Back when I was a marine maechanic guy in a boat yard we never had much trouble with OMC crankcase leaks, but, for what ever it's worth, the Merc outboards started puffing through failed sealant along the case-line right after they started putting MTBE in the gas. Merc then changed the sealant and the new 'uns worked fine. We re-sealed quite a few, but at least as many blew up from running hard with a lean (leaking) case-section.

I had trouble with the fuel valves in 650 Special Yamahas about that time, too.

No more MTBE - no more problem. Muuumm - coincidence. Right?

But the amount of acetone we're taking about is so small that, even if it acted the same way (and I don't think it would), it probably wouldn't do any harm.

Think maybe I'll pull down the old chem text...

[Tom]

I tested Acetone in my IH Scout. No discernible change in mileage, but there is a lot more power and less pinging. It works great for cleaning up gummed up carbs on small engines. Now that I'm putting some serious hours on the lister and running a 50/50 wvo/diesel mix, perhaps I should start adding some to my fuel blend to prevent carbon buildup. 

[villageidjit]

I tested Acetone in my IH Scout. No discernible change in mileage, but there is a lot more power and less pinging.

Tom,

I found the same results in a 2000 Ford Focus and a 2001 Nissan Quest, no change in MPG but smoother running.

10% MPG increase in '90 Ford 4.9l, '94 Mitsubishi, '90 Voyager van, '86 Izusu pup, '98 Pontiac grand am, and '97 Ford aspire.

My most controlled tests showed up to 13% increase in MPG at 2.5 oz per 10 gallons.  0% increase at 6 oz per 10 gallons.  Better performance in all cases regardless of amount varying from 1 oz to 10 oz per 10 gallons.  10 oz resulted in an 6% reduction in MPG.  I don't understand that part but it's what I measured.

A most interesting observation, though - the '98 Pontiac failed smog tests, I changed engine oil and added 5 oz of acetone in 10 gallons of gas and passed with flying colors!  Oil or acetone, I'm not certain but have heard of acetone in large amounts (5 or more oz per 10 gallons) reducing emissions.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/948100279/p/1
is the address of a fairly interesting discussion of acetone in gas and in diesel engines ( 3pages ).

Vic

edited to supply link above