Author Topic: Waste Oil Purifier  (Read 29483 times)

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2007, 01:28:59 AM »
In winter our feed stock could be as high as 10 % water if we were proccessing mostly automotive oils.

Combined with unburned fuels this created a snotty yellow condensate that scared the crap out of me because of its flamibility....

Oil can hold a suprising amount of water and mystery fluids in suspension ( like unburned gasoline ).

Ask your Chinese friends if this would throw your gizmo out of whack.

Next consideration might be looking for a floculant that will draw all the impurities together so they can be more easily spun out.

All out of ideas now....

Doug

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2007, 11:32:18 AM »

.....Next consideration might be looking for a floculant that will draw all the impurities together so they can be more easily spun out.

All out of ideas now....

Doug

Doug

Or perhaps a flatulent that would simply outgass them?

Doug, you get the award today for a new word i never heard before. ` Floculant`.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Incredilion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2007, 02:40:17 PM »
Tell me more about "floccoluants". How do you use them, what do they do, are they expensive, where do you get them.....I'll try most anyhting if it'll work. Maybe mixing these things with the oil THEN running it through the machine...?
BTW, I got another message from the manufacturer- "Run it through more cycles". So, it's running throug a 55 gallon drum right now, for ten hours.
Thanks folks,
Chris

Incredilion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2007, 02:50:32 PM »
I just went back through the lab results on the "filtered" oil, and it shows that I have pretty consistently 3.18% water. I don't think that's too bad, as (used) oils go, but the machine isn't removing any of it.

Incredilion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2007, 09:00:24 PM »
Thank you kindly, Jens. I'll be looking into this shortly.
Chris

sid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2007, 09:52:58 PM »
was intersted in the floccoluants////I will admit that i do not know anything about filtering wmo and wvo//but being from the south I know fried chicken.. well how does that fit in the discussion///fried chicken and sweet tea are a southen staple/// I was at the local fried chicken place when I noticed that they had added a power to the cooking oil// could not tell what is was but it said on the box that it extended the cooking life of the oil///I was wondering what it was and would it have any effect on a lister or would it filter out or clog the filters//it must be used to clean the cooking oil so it does not have to be replaced as ofter...Big ED always changes his cooking oil every january//I hope he does not go to a 2 year change with the powder//sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

Incredilion

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2007, 11:24:08 PM »
Here's a question for anybody who wants a go at it.....
 In the literature on this machine, it states that the machine should clean 600 Litres per hour. But, the machine isn't doing that. It's "filtering" on one pass a minimum of 300 GALLONS per hour. So, it's either passing a lot more than they think it will, or they plan on passing twice to get the results.
 I guess my wondering is-
Do any of you guys think this thing might be actually running too fast to filter adequately? Is this possible?

All answers I thank you in advance-
Chris

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2007, 01:13:07 AM »
Tell me more about "floccoluants". How do you use them, what do they do, are they expensive, where do you get them.....I'll try most anyhting if it'll work. Maybe mixing these things with the oil THEN running it through the machine...?
BTW, I got another message from the manufacturer- "Run it through more cycles". So, it's running throug a 55 gallon drum right now, for ten hours.
Thanks folks,
Chris

A flocculant is a product that is used for clarifying a liquid. You mix it with the liquid that needs clarifying, the impurities attach themselves to the flocculant and are the settled out or filtered. Each application has their own material for flocculant. I believe bentonite is used in a lot of applications but without further research I don't know any more than what I have mentioned so far.

Jens

Not sure what to use....
I know there are polymer Floc used in wate treatment, we used some in conjunction with bugs to treat water so we could discharge it...
Bentonite is a clay, also calle fullers earth I believe.

And I can't spell, never could lol   
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

LMWatBullRun

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2007, 04:02:41 PM »
if the flow is higher than expected and the filtration is lower than expected, I would diagnose as either-
Missing filter(s)

Ruptured filter medium, possibly due to higher than expected pressure, high viscosity (cold oil) or shipping vibration or shock.
Lister electric start; 20-2 listeroid; yanmar ts-50C; 82 volvo diesel; 90 dodge-cummins TD; case 580.

bitsnpieces1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2007, 02:06:30 PM »
  Doug ;
  I'm not sure if wastewater/water polymer flocculants would work in oils since they're designed to be soluble in water not oils.  However they are other types that could be soluble in oil. 
  One way to think of these is:
A wastewater polymer flocculant is like a long spring, the contaminant particles get part of themselves wedged in the coils and after enough get snagged the particle will settle out.  Bentonite is a clay, like a chunk of of a porous rock.  Things tend to stick to it and then settle out.  This is why clays (and activated carbon) are really good at pulling out the stuff that makes you sick to your stomach, it pulls the junk(bacteria/poison) out of your stomach contents, isolates it,  and prevents it from affecting you.  There are other flocculants like Iron Chloride;  this one reacts with the contaminate to add an iron atom to the material which then is heavy enough to settle out. 
  The powder the guy was adding could be something that would attach to the water molecules in the hot oil and cause it to seperate out.  Calcium Oxide (burnt lime) will do this by chemically reacting with the water and then settling out (pulling particulates with it). 
  Three types of processes were used by us:
1) Physical trapping (polymer, bentonite).
2) Chemically trapping (hydrated lime).  Used in water plants.
3) Chemically reacting (burnt lime, Iron Chloride).
« Last Edit: July 31, 2007, 02:10:24 PM by bitsnpieces1 »
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

Doug

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3386
  • Why don't pictures ever work for me?
    • View Profile
    • Doug's Petteroid Stuff
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2007, 04:02:11 AM »
I know the bentonite will strip the dye form coloured diesel.....

So will bread believe it or not.

This area is well beyond me.

Doug
It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2007, 05:03:17 PM »
Guys,

I am in the process of making an experimental filter to run my WTF and WMO through  so I can use uit as diesel fuel. I started this project months ago and it got neglected when other things came along.  I am getting back to it now.  My VW  diesel genset  engine cokes the injectors badly in short order when using WTF that has been sitting for years to drop the water and other suspeded bits and then pulled at point of need through a 10 and then 2 micron filte from the topof the tank.  The fine abrasive dust from bands and clutches I figure is the culprit.  My new DIY processing filter is basically an 8 foot long path of 6 inch PVC pipe that will be filled with kitty litter or bentonite or a mix of both followed by a spin-on hydraulic filter.  I plan to force the dirty oil through this filter arranged vertically against gravity with a small gear pump.  I will report on my progress.  The system is engineered so that the first two feet of filter material can be replaced easily without disturbing  the rest.  I thought this might get me more life from my filter media.  The big pipe is pivoted in the center on a angle iron frame. Tilting to facilitate dumping and refilling the filter media.  It resembles a backyard telescope.

I arrived at this concept after much thought and study which could have led to making a centrifuge or even  a vacuum distiller.  My experimentation with gravity feed through a 5 gallon pail of kitty litter with the bottom replaced by a screen yielded promising results, just not enough filtration, but it was clear that it was pulling the fine crap out of the oil.

EDIT fix typo.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 05:14:23 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #42 on: August 01, 2007, 08:26:32 PM »

I arrived at this concept after much thought and study which could have led to making a centrifuge or even  a vacuum distiller.  My experimentation with gravity feed through a 5 gallon pail of kitty litter with the bottom replaced by a screen yielded promising results, just not enough filtration, but it was clear that it was pulling the fine crap out of the oil.


You've been peeking in my mid somehow. Stop that (or at least report your test results as I have not done the bentonite filtering bit yet) :)
BTW, I assume you know that most kitty litter is in fact bentonite or moisture absorbing pellets (the name of the stuff currently eludes me but it's also used in compressed air water driers). I would think that bentonite will be cheaper as it packed in larger bags without the fancy printing :)
The real question - there are two kinds of bentonite (Sodium and calcium also called I think southern and western but it's been a long time) - which one are you planning to use ?
Just yesterday I was trying to figure out the average particle size of bentonite to make sure the filter at the end would capture absolutely everything. I didn't find the info though :(

Jens

I got a 50 lb. bag of real bentonite from a drill rig service dealer. I dunno if it is sodium or calcium.  Not interested in putting any in my mouth to try to find out.  It is small grains much like regular unscented clay kitty litter.  I haven`t tried the bentonite yet.  The kitty litter has other stuff in it besides bentonite which may even include powdered vermiculite.  I really don`t know, but the wholesale price of the bentonite is about the same price as retail for kitty litter per pound.  I note the clumping kitty litter is more aggressive in soaking up moisture but is much more expensive.  Also the oil doesn`t drop through it easily as it does regular kitty litter.

I should add that there was a fine powdered bentonite available which I did not see but I gather it looks like dry powdered portland cement.  I guess if you added that and mixed well with the clay kitty litter you would have a very good filtering medium.

I am going to try straight common unscented clauy kitty litter first off since it is easy to obtain.  Bentonite seems pretty expensive to me and not easy to get.

As far as putting this stuff in your mouth I have a joke.  `That`s NOT a Granola bar, it`s kitty litter!`   ;D
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

listerengines.ca

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
    • listerengines.ca
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2007, 12:43:20 PM »
What you want is fullers earth (30/60 lvm)

You will find it AF White in Brantford Ontario Canada

rcavictim

  • Certified Generator Head and Grand Master Sparky
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
Re: Waste Oil Purifier
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2007, 01:12:48 PM »
Listerengines,

Thanx for the tip!
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion