Author Topic: Lister stopping when hot  (Read 9728 times)

tomgilbert

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Lister stopping when hot
« on: April 09, 2007, 10:56:15 AM »
Folks

we have a 3.5hp (1,800 rpm) Lister "Cold Start" engine, around mid 1950's I think. I think it may be a D series. (serial is 1820LD17). It is linked to a 32 Volt gen set and used infrequently, maybe every 12 to 18 months and always starts first time, every time, runs all night and never and has never ever given trouble.
The other night after about half an hour the light dimmed, the engine laboured then stalled.There was smoke in the engine room.
The next day the engine started fine but after about 90 mins the engine began to labour and the lights dimmed. There was smoke in the shed (not from belts or the gen but engine I suspect) the engine smelt hot so I immediately turned the engine off.
After a thorough check I restarted the engine and it ran smoothly once again and gave no trouble.
Is it feasible the cooling system (ie flywheel air pump) has sucked in foreign matter and the engine is seizing because it is too warm?

rcavictim

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 11:13:49 AM »
Unfortunately I do not know your particular engine.  With that in mind, I assume you have checked the oil level in the crankcase and quality (hasn`t turned to jellol)?  If you haven`t changed the oil frequently enough I wonder if you have an oil pressure problem and pefhaps a blocked sump pickup screen.  If your engine lacks an oil pressure gauge , assuming it has a oil pump and pressure lube system, I`d recommend installing a gauge.

If it were me I`d probably begin by draining the oil, inspecting the drained stuff and putting in a fresh charge and new filter (if you have one).  Look for metal particles in the stuff you drain by stirring  with a powerful magnet

On the cooling airflow, certainly, examine the flywheel  cooling air intake screen for dust build-up and give it a power wash to clear out the gunk as needed.  Remove the air cowling if necessary.

I sure hope you have not damaged your engine from overheating.

Welcome to the forums Tom!
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tomgilbert

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 11:19:44 AM »
Gee that was a quick reply, thanks!! The oil has been changed recently and the level is always maintained. I am thinking if it was an oil problem it wouldn't run at all but the engine runs beautifully still. Is it feasible the increased heat might just cause the bore to nip up? I have not had the cooling cowell off yet so may investgate that next.

rmchambers

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 02:39:33 PM »
Does the engine just kind of die and coast to a stop or does it run normally and then bind up like it's attempting to seize up?

If it just kind of stops and coasts to a stop I don't think it's an oil related problem more than likely the injector or injector pump has some sort of issue when it gets good and hot.  Probably the injector.

If it's stopping pretty quickly though then you're suffering a partial seize and that can do serious damage.  If it's seizing up it's either mechanical (tolerances too close so that temperature expands a part to the point where it won't move) or a lack of lubrication.

More info needed really.  What kind of engine is it?

RC

tomgilbert

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2007, 12:14:05 AM »
Howdy RC

One of our number has just informed me it is an LD series CW rotation, single cylinder built in 1957. When it stops it actually doesn't seize as such but labours and runs on on. It sounds as though the tolerances are too close however we have not had this problem before. As mentioned, it always starts again first time and runs beautifully. Any other info I can provide? It operates in a dusty climate and sometimes not for up to 18 months. The engine is covered with canvas when not in use.

sid

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2007, 02:20:25 AM »
down south we have a problem with wasps that build a dirt nest in any small hole.causes a lot of problems.try something simple/if it is coverd in canvas you might want to check and see if a small animal has built a nest in the air ducts/blocked air flow could cause a lot of unusal problems/ sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

biobill

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2007, 03:40:38 AM »
Tom,
  Sounds to me like it's starving for fuel though I can't figure the smoke unless the injector is leaking. Seems like if it were seizing it would be a lot more dramatic and be less inclined to restart easily. Fuel filter? fuel tank vent? crud in the tank blocking the fuel line? petcock?
 Tight valve clearance could cause similar symptoms.   Good luck,  Bill
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Needs diesel lawnmower & chainsaw

tomgilbert

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2007, 08:53:01 AM »
Thanks for the advice people. I will investigate your suugestions and see how I go.

Tom

mactoollover2005

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 03:01:01 AM »
Tom
  As Biobill said it sounds like fuel starvation.Last year we had a diesel that started to starve for fuel and as strange as it sounds it didnt slow down because it started to suck up crankcase oil up and started to burn it until it was only burning oil only and thats when it would die, and if we waited for a few minutes we could start it right up and run it for for awhile until it did it again, the first clue for us was the burning of the oil just before it died ::) This eng had a huge flywheel and damm near took a tank to stop it.

If its not fuel then my second guess would be overheating. low rpm diesels that are overheating usually stop fairly casual,almost gracefull ;D but a high speed( detroit 2 strokers)running at top speed,well, when they seize its a beatifull sight for most repair shops ;),never seen a screamer overheat without some seriouse damage but them slow chuggers,ie, slow rpm,s just usually shake off the overheating when its cooled off and start up without any probs.
Derek
Still working on finding a lister gennie.
Derek

listeroidsusa1

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 02:56:31 AM »
I'd check the cooling fins for debris. I had a similar problem with my air-cooled deutz tractor after bush hogging for an hour or so. Cleaning the junk out of the fins fixed my problem. My tractor started laboring hard, smoked (smoke from the cowling from hot debris), and tried to seize up. After cleaning the leaves out it ran normally again.

Mike

wldhoss

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 01:29:53 PM »
Could be that your engine is operating at a hotter temp than it should and your cylinder wall restricts the piston.  Could have a hot spot or star on the cylinder wall that when hot restricts the piston.

My JD 4020 tractor does this.  Put it on a dyno with a big load, it gets hotter than normal operating temps. and seizes up.  Cool it down and it will start right up.  It has to get above normal temps for this to happen.
Check your cooling system.

hotater

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2007, 03:03:35 AM »
Smoke in the genhouse??   Smells hot??  Engine labors then dies??

 It's seizing due to overheating.  FIX the problem before cranking again, please.  It'll only take so much abuse and then quit until given a large cash transfusion.    ;)
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mobile_bob

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2007, 06:07:28 AM »
i'm with tater and the boys on this one,, and i would suggest perhaps a step further

anytime you start to seize an engine, you get metal to metal contact (piston to cylinder wall), anytime this sort of contact happens
you get scoreing, with scoreing comes loss of compression, blowby, and depending if the piston top has issues down by the rings,,
under load you can have a torch cutting by and destroy the ring seal, cause more localized heat and then a burnt piston.

even if the engine appears to run ok after a cool down i would suggest pulling the piston and a careful inspection, rehone and rering if
necessary.

i guess it depends on how much you depend on or care about this engine, if it was me,,, i would find the cause of the overheat
then do some exploratory surgury to determine if all is well, and correct as necessary any damage.

bob g
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DaveW

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2007, 06:36:34 AM »
I would second that.  One of my Wisconsins acted much the same.  Pulled the air shroud to find mud dauber nests on the fins.  Cleaned them and replaced the shrouds, it ran like a champ for about another 20 hours and then cost my about $800 to repair the damage.  If I had looked before restarting it the damage would have been a set of rings and a hone job.  Now the shrouds get pulled once a year,  air cooled engines need air like water cooled engines need water.

tomgilbert

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Re: Lister stopping when hot
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2007, 04:19:33 AM »
Excellent advice you folks, really appreciate it. I will remove the the cooling shroud and investigate forthwith.
Thanks very much..