Author Topic: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?  (Read 13800 times)

xyzer

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220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« on: April 02, 2007, 02:15:15 PM »
I am debating using 12v fan vs a mechanical fan for cooling. My question is does someone make a 220V to 12V regulated charger that will maintain one battery, and also output larger amperage if you wanted to charge a bank of them? I know of the losses I just need a 12V system for cooling and if I needed to top off a stack of batteries it would do it.
Dave
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 08:05:16 PM by xyzer »
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listerdiesel

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Re: 220V 12V battery charger?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2007, 08:00:34 PM »
If you are looking at 220V AC input and 12V output then no problems, there are hundreds of designs and manufacturers out there. Our company goes up to 40kW in single-phase input chargers, but we don't do anything consumer, it is all industrial markets like rail loco chargers (110V DC output) and things like that.

If you want 220V DC to 12V DC then it's a different ball game.

Peter

xyzer

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 08:18:53 PM »
Peter,
 I left the AC to DC part out but that is what I want. I was looking over my current project of building a cooling system like the Listers had with the radiator mounted in line with the flywheels. I have a nice Metro radiator mounted where I need it. I need to build a crankshaft pulley to run a fan like the Listers had but am considering using the 12V fan the Metro has on it. It would take some work to build the pully and fan arrangement not a big deal but a 12V system would be easy with the shroud and 12V fan I have. I was wondering if a good 220V AC to 12V DC 30 amp regulated charger would take care of one battery and not hurt it. But then would allow me to throw a 30 amp charge at a bank of them if needed.
I'm waffeling on which way to go. A charger is around $250.00 and the pulley setup is my time + materials and won't charge batteries!
Dave   
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ronmar

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 05:42:51 AM »
Dave
   Try Newmar power systems.  They make quite a few battery chargers.  I have one in my garage that has a input switchable between 115 and 230 VAC.  My particlar one is an older split charger which will automatically maintain two 12VDC batteries with charge currents from 8A down to float/trickle.  They make MUCH larger ones:)

http://www.newmarpower.com/Marine_Home.html

Edit
   I just looked thru the battery chargers section on the above link, and surprise surprise, mine is still listed.  It is an ABC type and they say they have been making it for 30 years.  Mine is the smaller 8 amp model, but they make one to 25A.  Here is a link to the .PDF datasheet and the specs still show it switchable between 105-125 VAC or 210-250 VAC.

http://www.newmarpower.com/PDF-Catalog-Spec-Sheets/Battery_Chargers_ABC_HDM_Series.pdf

Ron
« Last Edit: April 03, 2007, 05:50:53 AM by ronmar »
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kltrider

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 06:52:52 AM »
Why not just use a small japanese 12v alternator? My John Deere  790 has a PMA that puts out enough to run the tractor
and headlights / accessories plus charge the battery. You should be able to find one of these on Ebay for cheap.
If not, let me know and I'll find a small unit if you want me to. BTW, how about adapting a Harley PMA to the generator rotor?
Should have enough speed and enough room on the shaft?

xyzer

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2007, 04:59:58 PM »
Why not just use a small japanese 12v alternator? My John Deere  790 has a PMA that puts out enough to run the tractor
and headlights / accessories plus charge the battery. You should be able to find one of these on Ebay for cheap.
If not, let me know and I'll find a small unit if you want me to. BTW, how about adapting a Harley PMA to the generator rotor?
Should have enough speed and enough room on the shaft?
kltrider,
I've thought of that but I will put a higher output alternater on it than the imports have. Maybe a one with the regulator built in off a diesel truck. Does delco still make them with the internal regulator? I want to keep it simple(Ha Ha!) but be able to put out some 12V if I really need it. I know they make some nice alternators that have a better lifespan and can put out more amps but I want to stick with something I can get off the shelf at Napa. "how about adapting a Harley PMA to the generator rotor" PMA? what is that? No harley part here! It leaks enough already! just kidding! LOL...I ride everything else........
Dave
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bitsnpieces1

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2007, 01:56:21 PM »
  A bit expensive maybe, but gives you a real choice.  Use a 220/240 v VARIAC variable transformer.  Hook the input to your 220v, crank the handle around to120v output, then to any 12v dc charger you want.  Would also give you the option of running any ac voltage you wanted to whatever project you wanted.
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LowGear

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2007, 09:13:24 PM »
Are you welding or keeping a car battery up?  Holy Moly!  Let's not forget the mission statement. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/yale-24-volt-battery-charger-220-volt-single-phase_W0QQitemZ150110065469QQihZ005QQcategoryZ109505QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hang the mission statement.  How about one of those solar trickle charger units and four 120mm computer fans?

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rbodell

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 08:26:58 PM »
i don't know if there is any such thing as a 220 microwave oven, but I have a battery charger I built from a junk microwave transformer. Just cut off the secondary and rewind it with about 13 to 15 turns of heavy magnet wire, I think I used about 8 or 9 GA. Then get a full wave bridge from radio shack. It will do about 30 or 35 amps. I wound mine to 13.5 volts and as the batteries go up the amperage drops. The transformers are easy to rewind ebcause they are big and you can't burn them up. I built a 200 amp arc welder from them and tried to burn up a transformer just to see what it would do. A guy gave me some rods he said were good for 200 amps. I burned up about 35 of them just stopping to change rods and didn't burn out a transformer.

You can also put a incandesent dimmer switch on the primary side and control the voltage output too.

aqmxv

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 09:17:22 PM »
Also, not all 12V fans are created equal.  Since you're talking about using the fan for cooling, you have to assume long run times and 100% duty cycle.

A 12v car radiator fan or heater blower isn't going to cut it.  These are generally brushed motors with sealed plain bearings.  They're designed for a definite lifespan, which is a long time on a car, but the car application has, at most, a 30% duty cycle.

Now you can go with a bunch of computer-grade 12v muffin fans, but they also make 120vac muffin fans, which saves you from needing a second power source to run the fans.  These are all available as pretty cheap surplus.

If you need more airflow, comair/rotron makes (much) bigger 120v computer fans.  The Patriot models move serious air.  Of course, they're also pretty noisy.  If low noise is your primary concern, you may end up working with the 12v muffin fans again, and run them at 7-10v.

If it were my application, I'd design around surplus 120v muffin fans because my listeroid is a 120v generator.  One less conversion step, one less thing to go wrong, and the muffin fans are pretty efficient, so not much energy is lost to moving the air around.

Of course, if you want to get really slick, you could plumb up an exhaust extractor and use that to pull air over the radiator...


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mobile_bob

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2007, 09:25:02 AM »
xyzer:

all delco's are internally regulated since somewhere back in the early 70's

and they are "deep" internally regulated requiring disassembly of the unit to get to the regulator
they use the regulator to space out and mount the brush holder as well.

the newer units, that came out in the 90's are even more difficult to service because the stator is soldered in
and will require desoldering to not only get the stator out, but to gain access to the brush holder and regulator

good units, but not my first choice for a project
the smaller units also have to spin faster to produce much power, which may not be an issue if only for charging a starting battery.

bob g
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Doug

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2007, 06:25:45 PM »
xyzer:

all delco's are internally regulated since somewhere back in the early 70's


bob g

That would begin with the SI series of alternators I believe your right on the date, perhaps a bit earlier....

Yet I cant remember where my car keys are? 
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xyzer

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Re: 220V AC TO 12V DC battery charger?
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2007, 07:23:24 PM »
I am debating using 12v fan vs a mechanical fan for cooling. My question is does someone make a 220V to 12V regulated charger that will maintain one battery, and also output larger amperage if you wanted to charge a bank of them? I know of the losses I just need a 12V system for cooling and if I needed to top off a stack of batteries it would do it.
Dave
Thanks for the feedback guys. I ended up with a Leece Neville 165 amp alternator. It will allow me to expand on its use in the future. Better regulator upgrade and industrial strength. The fan issue is still on the table. I am planning to put a full load on it when I get things all sorted out and see how much air movement it requires and its cycle time to keep it cool then decide on a belt driven mechanical or 12v thermostatically controlled fan. At the rate things are going I will do the test this summer on a hot day to get a good feeling on what is really required to keep it cool.
Dave
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