Porting a Lister cylinder head and intake

[cujet]

By my calculations, the VE of a Lister is quite poor for it's RPM. Without addressing the camshaft, I am sure the volumetric efficiency can be improved with some simple hot rodding tricks. While this will not result in much more power, as the rack is wide open under full load anyway, it will decrease the pumping losses. This can result in lower fuel burn and less smoke under full load.

My thought was to test the entire intake tract (airfilter included) in stock form at maximum valve lift. From what I can see, the airfilter is smaller than the port, and the intake manifold. Also the valve is quite simple in design and can be flow improved.  Simple intake port, intake manifold and airfilter mods should result in better overall airflow.

Chris

[kyradawg]

Peace&Love , Darren

[Mr Lister]

Darren and List,

The BSFC for the Listeroids is typically quoted on the manufacturers sites as 255 to 268 grammes per kWh when run on high speed diesel fuel.

I have measured a fuel consumption of  0.2642 US gallons per hour, on my 6/1 when generating 2kW electricity , and Jeff Maier on the Utterpower site has seen 0.25 US gal /KWh electric.

http://utterpower.com/fuel1.htm

From my calculations this makes the engine fuel in to electricity out -  about 21.8% efficient.   

If the generator is about 80% efficient, then still I only have about 27.25% thermal efficiency.

How are you getting the 30% or even 45% figure?

Next time  I am working on the engine, I will measure what the maximum injector shot is. 

100 shots into a graduated syringe, or narrow bore glass tube, should be a reasonably accurate way of measuring it.



Ken

[kyradawg]

 Peace&Love , Darren

[SHIPCHIEF]

I don't think it's possible for a RANKINE CYCLE heat engine to exceed 35% efficiency?
If memory serves correctly....

[kyradawg]

Peace&Love , Darren

[SHIPCHIEF]

Possible, but not us.
The thermal efficeincy of a motorship includes the use of a heat recovery boiler which runs a steam turbine generator for ship's electric power, so not all of the efficiency comes thru the crankshaft.  (I'm a marine engineer)
The high level of turbocharging to get there would require major changes to a lister. I'm afraid the price would include the loss of the famous LISTER CHARM
I'm for increases in efficiency, like heat recovery from jacket water and exhaust, also reduction of parasitic loads like water pumps and 12V alternators. Quieter carbon fiber pushrods seem to have potential, Oil filter and air filter improvements pay off right away in longevity. I just look at this differently than you do.
Scott E

[Mr Lister]

Darren,

Hot off the press here is the max pump volume for my 6/1 engine.  Pump is a CAV BKB - detail to follow.

Using a clear plastic tube of fixed internal diameter 10.5mm I turned the flywheel over 100 revolutions and counted the 50 injection shots into the tube. 

I measured the depth of the fuel as 63.8mm.   I repeated the test and got a consistent depth measurement to within 0.25mm.

Area of tube  =  PI x (5.25mm)^2   =  86.5901 mm2
Average Depth   = 63.8mm

Volume  = 5524..451 mm3

Volume of 1 shot =  110.4890  microlitres

So lets assume the engine was running at 650  rpm constant, that's 325 shots per minute and 19500 per hour

So the maximum fuel consumed in 1 hour is 19500 x 110.499/ 1000000 litres   = 2.1545 litres  (0.569158 US gals per hour if you prefer)

Now if the calorific value of diesel fuel is 46.5MJ per kilo, and there are 1.203 litres in a kilo of diesel, then in 1 hour the engine consumes  83.2786MJ or 23.133 kWh.

My own tests running the engine on a 2kW load suggested that fuel was only being used at half this rate or about 1 litre per hour.

Very roughly, I would say that the 6/1 MIGHT be capable of 8hp with the rack fully open.

Perhaps someone who understands the ratios of air needed for complete combustion might wish to continue this discussion.


I hope this helps




Ken



1 US gallon = 3.7854118 litres    so at full rack 0.569158 US gallons per hour

[kyradawg]

Ken,

Simply put you are a badass!! Thanks for the killer info.
Peace&Love , Darren

[Mr Lister]

Darren & list,

I re-read the fuel consumption data on the Utterpower site.

Jeff M. got a consumption of 0.125 US gal/ kWh.

This was on a 2.5kW load so 2.5 x .125 = 0.3125 US Gal/hr

Scroll down and look a the chart Jeff plotted of fuel consumption against electrical load

http://utterpower.com/fuel1.htm

A US gallon of diesel is say 138000 btu
 Â 
There are 3412 btu per kWh

Fuel energy in =0.3125 x 138000/3412    = 12.639kWh

Electrical energy out =2.5kWh

Efficiency =  2.5/12.639 =  19.78 %

This is close to the value I got.

The variation is down to the value used for the fuel calorific value,   as veg oil is 121400 BTU/ gal this explains the difference.


Re calc with veg oil

Fuel energy in =  0.3125 x 121400/3412  =  11.11 kWh

Efficiency =   22.48%

I would estimate that the belts, and alternator are about 80% efficient overall.

We may use funny metric units over here, and I may be one badass melon-farmer,  but my results have been consistent with Jeff's findings!



Ken

[kyradawg]

Peace&Love , Darren

[cujet]

All this talk about efficiency got me thinking about the Honda natural gas powered generator, water heater and house heater. Honda claims this multi purpose device is near 90 percent efficient at times. Using a Lister to heat water and house seems like a great idea. I know a few here have done it. Maybe this should be a factor in the efficiency numbers.

That is certainly one way to reclaim what otherwise would be losses.

Chris

[kyradawg]

Peace&Love , Darren

[n2toh]

or about 2 tons of AC

[GerryH]

Kyradawg
I may want to experiment on a spare head with the 2"valve.
No way you can do it for me, too far away. Can you spell out in detail for me the steps and cutter sizes, etc for enlarging the valve seat and bowl.
I am enough of a sucker for punishment that I will turn a valve out of stainless stock. My only other concern is whether there is enough spare cast iron in the bowl area to enlarge it without making it too thin in the water jacket zone.

Gerry