ceramic guides

[kltrider]

A short time back someone, cujet i think, mentioned ceramic valve guides.
Does anyone know a vendor or supplier for a retail type purchase of the sort needed in a 6/1?
I have decided to begin the rebuild of my 6/1 and since the crank and rod / piston are being reworked first,
this gives me time to find parts for the next thing I will tackle, the head.

[hotater]

Ceramic guides in a Lister is pretty much a waste of time, money and effort.  There isn't enough heat to make them needed.

I'd suggest bronze liners.  Any automotive shop should be able to bush them for 11 mm guides.

I've found that IF the rocker arm contact pads are EXACTLY right, valve guides are in no way a problem.   The contact patch has to be exactly square (flat) with the lash cap and the center of the contact should be .010 towards the injector side (over center) at rest  so that on full depression they're .010 under center.  The center of the rocker contact pad 'wipes' through the center of the valve stem and places the least amount of side pressure to the valve stem.  They seem to last a LONG time as a result.

Set them up totally dry to start and it's easy to see the hand ground rocker pads are likely to be angled and only hitting the cap on an edge.  Smear a little Prussian blue on the cap to check the 'wipe area'.

Time taken in carefull set-up is paid back with extra fishing time later.   

[xyzer]

My Dad makes these guides, http://www.spaceageceramicguideblocks.com/  but they are for bandsaws. Ceramic is easy to machine in the green state but after they are cooked they become harder than Heck! They have to machined with diamond. All his parts are machined in the green state then fired with the shrinkage factored in. They are all square or rectangular with no holes. Like Hotater says stock is fine if set up correctly bronze would be nice if you had to replace them.
Dave

[kltrider]

Thanks, guys. My 6/1 is a dedicated experimental engine to see just how far I can take the basic layout of a Listeroid.
Ceramic guides are only one part I intend to try. Roller tipped rocker arms and carbon fibre pushrods are the first.
Then cooling with oil and a water to oil heat exchanger with thermostatic control to raise running temp to 235,
or even higher under full load.
Eventually, electronic fuel injection and a "six stroke cycle" operation will be tried.
We took over 7.1 ounces off the rod by grinding and more accurately resizing the big and small ends.
My rod also had the large and un-even gap at the wrist pin shown in some pictures. In fact there was over .082" of
clearance in one 17 degree arc, approximately 45 degrees from top center of the pin hole. Did anyone else have one this bad / worse?

[rmchambers]

What are you planning to do with the end-product?  are your experiments to see how efficient you can make the engine or is reliability the goal or a bit of both?

I'm thinking adding EFI to the mix is just something else to go wrong with it at the most inopportune timing.  The beauty of the basic diesel engine is you need very little to make it work.  good compression and correctly timed injection of fuel oil. If you have those in the proper amounts your engine runs.

Your experimentation with push rods and such may yield some great improvements over the stuff coming over from India so the replacement products might be a slap-in improvement over what comes stock.  Roller tappets and such would certainly reduce the side-loads on the valve stems and things like that.

Definitely keep us in the loop, the project sounds very interesting.

Robert

[kltrider]

rmchambers: Basicly, this project is to see where the basic listeroid can be taken. Issues such as the emissions as well as reliability are considered.
The reason for EFI on this engine is to investigate optimal timing IP (initial point) and duration for every senario I can conceive.
I can reprogram a fuel chart much easier than I can change timing on a PICO pmp.
If these engines are to survive, let alone flourish, they need to meet the rules in force now, regardless of what comes in the future.
OK. Since you asked, (yes I realize you didn't) the goal is to develope a kit of parts to adress the reliability issues first.
Roller tapets, rocker arms properly hardened pushrod ball ends, etc. Possibly find a way to "produce" the belt drive I use on my 10/1 generator engine,
so anyone could retrofit to an existing 6 to 10/1.
I cannot do anything about the existing quality issues from India, sand, plaster and such, BUT maybe I can do something else to help.
BTW, the six stroke cycle I reffered to holds a lot of promise and is another reason for EFI.  I will need the electronics to make that work.

[rmchambers]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.

Regarding the 6 cycle project - are you talking about the Crower water injection?  that's a really cool project and I'm sure one that will interest everyone on this list.  The benefits of this would be cooler running and no carbon buildup on the pistons.  Less fuel use although it will require water but so far that's still fairly cheap.

Looking forward to hearing more!

Robert

[kltrider]

RMC: (Hope you don't mind my use of a nickname.) The Crower system is one avenue to explore.
I can't say more about that at this time. Other versions of 6sc include injecting another combustable
fuel on the "bonus" compression stroke.
As an aside, when I campagained an alcohol powered dragster many years ago, the main problem
was keeping enough heat in the engine to assist lighting off the alky. And this was with 14.5 / 1 compression
and 16 pounds of boost along with 2 huge magnetos and plugs.
Having said that, what about, oh, say, the equivalent of e85 injected thru an injector port added into the COV plug?
Just a random thought. Heh Heh Heh.
These are just a few of the things I need to explore. 
 

[rmchambers]

No worries on a nickname.  Very interesting.  Who'd have thought these engines were on the cutting edge of dual fuel technologies?

Can't wait to see the running version.

RMC