Author Topic: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view  (Read 13419 times)

mobile_bob

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 05:01:59 PM »
while we may not all be together on the topic of global warming/cooling/whatever, what i find interesting
is there is some concensus that one needs to mentally arm himself and his children to live in a rapidly changing world.

Eccentric,,, that is an interesting one,, and yes i too am probably viewed as eccentric or just plain wierd,, and ya know what?
i paid my dues,, and i figure it is my turn to step up and take the torch from the eccentric old dudes that came before me.

Eccectric old farts unite!

maybe we should charter a new group, hire lobbiests, have conventions, run for office?

what is disturbing is all the so called science that is shoved down our collective throats every minute of every stinking day.
what part of which science is one to believe, which parts does one discard... hell i dunno,,, and i doubt anyone else knows for
sure either.

as long as there is money, power, and prestige at stake, the resulting science will always be slanted to someones likeing.
if we could remove the money, power, prestige, and of course the politic's from science, perhaps then we could get some solid
evidence to form some basis of fact.

even then,,, the world is like trying to hurd sheep,,, they go every which way,,, so basically as been said, whatever the truth
is regarding global whatever,,,, nothing is going to be done about it until it is too late,, and then it will be too late to do anything about it
anyway,,, assuming of course that humans are responcible for it in the first place (which in my opinion is a very broad assumption).

bob g
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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 06:13:09 PM »
Bob, sheep tend to stick together, easier to herd, unless you get them in a single file shute, then one will always turn around and face backward, screwing up the whole process.  Ask me how I know  ;D
The hard things to herd are cats  ::)
Stan

Agree about the power, money & prestige (ego) thing though.

mobile_bob

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 07:09:58 PM »
you must have better behaved sheep,,, or...

i guess my only real experience with sheep are when it is time to shear them,,

they are less than willing to stick together then,, and when one dart off the other way,,, they all dart after him.

perhaps the analogy is not far off , as you say when sheep are fairly settled and not under threat,, they all stay together
and are easily herded around,, but when threat or stress comes up,, the first to dart takes the whole herd with it.

sounds kind of like human mob mentality of sorts

bob g
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dieselman

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 08:59:27 PM »
Get a border collie, it won't answer the global warming problem, but you should be able to control your sheep!

Jim
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Stan

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 10:35:36 PM »
A neighbour of mine up in Dawson Creek (where I had my 1/4 section) used to have his sheep break out his fencing on a regular basis.  He and I were talking one day and I told him i'd bet there was only 1 old ewe that went through the fences and all the rest followed.  A couple of days later I heard a shot!  He told me later that he sat up by the end of the fence line and waited.  Sure enough one old ewe poked her head throught the fence and began to squeeze through.  Bam!
Stan
That solved the problem.

Engine content!  I"d guess the analogy would be to be vigilant with our Listers so we know when something is going to happen before it actually lets go.

rpg52

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 05:35:43 PM »
Everyone,

A sincere question that I really would like the answer to:  If one accepts Peak Oil as a truthful scenario, how is the response to "human caused" Global Warming different from an acceptable response to Peak Oil? 

I'm truly not looking for an argument, just curious, because it seems to me that a responsible response to each scenario would be the same.   ::)  Comments anyone?  Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

okiezeke

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 08:32:10 PM »
RPG,
Well, one difference might be that peak oil is real.  May not be today, but someday we will hit the peak and start down.  Human caused global warming is considered to be bulls?&t by as many respected scientists as the crowd who is pushing(and profiting from) the concept.  Everyone agrees that global temps have been much hotter(and colder) many times in the past with no humans around to cause it.  Are we the cause now??  Nobody knows, but it sure is a convenient concept to use to push for pet causes.  I really dont feel personally responsible if the ocean rises 200 feet.  It's been there before and will be there again.  After katrina is there any more to say about ignoring the reality of living on a dynamic planet.  Stuff will happen.  We'll just have to pick up the pieces and go on with life.  The fact that so many politicians are screaming "global warming" should be enough reason to have considerable doubt about the whole thing.  We need a new organization.  PIGGE   the Politically Impotent in favor of Greenhouse Gas Emmision. our motto:  I'm proud to be a PIGGE
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villageidjit

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 10:18:07 PM »
Everyone,
A sincere question that I really would like the answer to:  If one accepts Peak Oil as a truthful scenario, how is the response to "human caused" Global Warming different from an acceptable response to Peak Oil? 
I'm truly not looking for an argument, just curious, because it seems to me that a responsible response to each scenario would be the same.   ::)  Comments anyone?  Thanks,
Ray

Ray,
"Peak Oil" is in fact a reality.  Maybe we will not need oil before it runs out (because of discoveries of other energy sources), but it will definetly become scarcer as time goes by.  The amount of solar energy received on the surface of the earth daily is many times more energy than mankind is capable of consuming.  Peak oil might be just another way of saying "big business cheap energy".  (getting less "cheap" by the day now!)

I am very aware of many, many historic global changes in temperature.  It happens and has happened since before mankind.  I do NOT find it hard to believe that mankind has had a substantial impact in the amount of "greenhouse gases" in our atmosphere, and that the those gases COULD have a substantial adverse affect on our future climate.

Major global warming could be one of the most serious dangers mankind has ever faced and survived!  I do NOT subscribe to Al Gore's book, he is a crook through and through!  I am NOT a tree hugger and my heart bleeds only for those I know and care about and could possibly do something about!  Ya can't feed all the starving children so go fight a cause you have a chance of winning.

To answer your question, look into your heart, look at your children and loved ones, make a decision - can you do anthing about it?  I think we can all make a little difference but to make a big difference it will take more action and more strength than we all might have.  For instance, am I helping the environment more by using 1/4 to 1/2 gallon "drinking" water to rinse out a one gallon milk jug to be recycled rather than sent to the landfill?   

Wanna dream about something really wierd?  Why do we use 1.6 gallons (6 liters) of DRINKING water to flush 8 to 12 ounces of urine?  I don't have an easily publishable answer - I am as frustrated as can be.  There IS a way, but the powers that be (you and I by our votes or lack thereof) will NOT allow a sensible solution (although industry COULD create a product to solve that one particular problem - with encouragement by us or the powers that be by statute or financial motivation).

I'm off the soapbox now, next?

Vic
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okiezeke

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 10:36:11 PM »
Vic,
Not much to disagree with.  I've used an outhouse.  Zero water to flush anything.  Is is better for the environment??  When I lived on a boat, everything went into the ocean with no freshwater flush.  Not too sanitary either.  The best thing humans could  do for the planet is leave.  Not too likely.  There are just too many of us.  Like rats in a small cage, we poop in our food dish.  Can we do better?? Sure!  Will we fix the problem??  No way,  there are just too many of us on a small planet.  Mabe bird flu is the answer to global warming??  It's the most natural of ways to reduce population.  Revenge of the Buffalo wings!
Zeke
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villageidjit

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 10:41:14 PM »
Vic,
Not much to disagree with.  I've used an outhouse.  Zero water to flush anything.  Is is better for the environment??  When I lived on a boat, everything went into the ocean with no freshwater flush.  Not too sanitary either.  The best thing humans could  do for the planet is leave.  Not too likely.  There are just too many of us.  Like rats in a small cage, we poop in our food dish.  Can we do better?? Sure!  Will we fix the problem??  No way,  there are just too many of us on a small planet.  Mabe bird flu is the answer to global warming??  It's the most natural of ways to reduce population.  Revenge of the Buffalo wings!
Zeke

Zeke,

Reluctantly, I guess I have to agree with you.  Perhaps a "successful famine" or major disease like the bird flu might make a difference.

If not, oh well, ship happens.

Vic
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okiezeke

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2007, 11:05:01 PM »
Vic,
Where in the ozarks?  I'm in Benton Co. Ar.
Zeke
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rpg52

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2007, 02:21:50 AM »
Thanks for the replies. 

I guess I should have expected the same puzzlement from everyone else that I have.  It seems to me that a mindful response to Peak Oil (and likely to Global Warming, if one assumes its’ possibility) is to try to minimize energy use in all its forms. 

A couple years ago I got a phone poll on how my energy use had changed due to increased prices.  As it turned out, I realized that my behavior hadn’t changed because I was already minimizing energy use as much as I could while still getting by in modern society.  It included driving old cars and trucks, even though they aren’t as efficient as modern ones.  If you don’t drive them much though, they don’t use much fuel, and it also avoids the energy cost of new manufacture.  I already had solar hot water, fluorescent lights, etc., so increased prices really didn’t change my behavior much.

 As a side note, it is interesting to note how an old car is equated to ragged clothes in American society.  You are judged to be an economic loser if your car is too old.  Fortunately I’ve lived in the same place for almost 30 years, so I don’t worry too much about what the world at large thinks of my style, or lack thereof.   

Also, as has been mentioned before, owning a Listeroid makes you cool, regardless of how you appear.  ;D
Ray
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rosietheriviter

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2007, 06:27:42 AM »
Everyone,
A sincere question that I really would like the answer to:  If one accepts Peak Oil as a truthful scenario, how is the response to "human caused" Global Warming different from an acceptable response to Peak Oil? 
I'm truly not looking for an argument, just curious, because it seems to me that a responsible response to each scenario would be the same.   ::)  Comments anyone?  Thanks,
Ray

Ray,
I am very aware of many, many historic global changes in temperature.  It happens and has happened since before mankind.  I do NOT find it hard to believe that mankind has had a substantial impact in the amount of "greenhouse gases" in our atmosphere, and that the those gases COULD have a substantial adverse affect on our future climate.
I'm off the soapbox now, next?
Vic

Vic,
The amount of carbon dioxide we generate and liberate have to have some effect on the atmospheric composition on earth.  It seems to be widely accepted that greenhouse gasses do actually increase the heat gain and reduce the heat loss.  When we take into the account all the animals we raise for food, and all the animals we have elimenated I assume there could be a measure of greenhouse gas difference.
How to make a substantial change is a serious question that we may not be able to answer in our lifetime.
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villageidjit

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2007, 05:07:47 AM »
Vic,
Where in the ozarks?  I'm in Benton Co. Ar.
Zeke
Zeke,
I call Christian County, Missouri home.  Near Sparta Mo.
Vic
Somewhere in the Ozark Mountains, the Village Idiot is missing!

cujet

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Re: Global Warming, an interestng alternate view
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2007, 11:30:51 AM »
Mr Gore refused to make a pledge to use less energy when asked by congress. He is also partner in a firm that provides "Carbon Credits".

This is the proof that he is a FRAUD and a SHYSTER. In fact, careful study of Mr. Gore's proposals show that carbon credits and carbon offset is simply another form of taxation. AND a big one at that.

Folks, this is a religion. People follow the leaders on faith. Of course, they are only told half the story. Some people follow so faithfully they are zealous and drag the faith into every conversation/publication. Most of the time they want others to convert to a more basic lifestyle, while they go on consuming and preaching.

The prophets of "Gloom and Doom".

Chris
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