Taper Pin Removal

[Kurt802]

Hello Everyone,
This is my first question about my Metro Listeroid.  My camshaft is shimmed enough so that the idler gear and camshaft gear are off set at least a 1/4 inch .  I think they did this to make sure that the tappets rotate no matter what.  The Indians peened over both ends of the taper pin.  I cut both ends off and can't tell what end to drive out.  I thought I knew which end was smaller diameter than the other but it won't budge.  I want to remove the camshaft and then remove the shims.  I had new valve guides installed and the valves hand lapped by the local auto machine shop.  Push rod ends polished, tappet sockets polished, rocker arm strikers ground to strike valve caps square, my friend is a machinest and he made new valve stem caps that fit perfectly, the OEM caps were NG. I am concerned that if I run the engine with the cam shimmed at least 1/4 inch it may damage the gears.  Any help you all may suggest for the taper pin removal would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kurt802

[Geno]

Some of these pins are driven in WAY to hard. You will have to know the correct side to drive from. Then drill in a bit with a bottom drill. It leaves a flat spot on the bottom and drive it out with the correct size punch. You don’t want to anything to expand the pin. That being said I had to cut my collar off with a dremel and grind the pin down to remove the cam. Its still held in place with a 2 piece collar from the hardware store. Also be sure to keep the roller tappet lined up with its lobe while shimming. One advantage of my type of collar is that you can adjust end play once the shims are installed. I initially had way to much. Make sure the shaft and collar are totally clean and dry if you go with a non pinned collar.

Thanks, Geno

[Joe]

Sorry I can't add much to removal of the old pins but this could also be a viable alternative to pounding new pins into place.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an386taperpin.php

Joe

[ronmar]

I had a similar situation and eventually wound up carefully drilling out the majority of the old pin.  I was then finally able to get enough of a bite with a small pointed chisel to deform and drive out the old pin.  I was unable to locate a correct size replacement locally.  I think I determined that I needed a #7 taper pin 3 1/2" long to get something that I could cut down to the right length and still have the correct entrance and exit dimensions with enough left to peen over.  I hate waiting for parts that I am going to have to modify anyway, so I wound up lining up the camshaft and collar on a drill press, with the remains of the old pin.  I drilled out the tapered whole straight and now use a 3/8" allen head shoulder bolt and nylock locknut(available at most any hardware store) to retain the collar..  I could have also used a spring steel rolled compression pin, but I already had the long shoulder bolt I needed in the shop. 

With that much camshaft gear offset, how well does the fuel pump roller line up with the cam lobe?

I like the split collar idea.  With a dowel pin in the original hole, I think that would work very well also.

[okiezeke]

The way that worked for me was to grind both ends of the taper pin flush.   Then measure pin diameter with a caliper.  The small end is a few thousandths smaller.  I took a punch about the same size as the pin and with a few sharp whacks it came right out.  If it doesent move check again that you have the smaller end of the pin.  McMaster has the taper pins cheap, you have to buy a long one to get the needed diameters .   Good luck!
Zeke

[Kurt802]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I have some time to try removal this week and will post my efforts soon.  I am concerned about the fuel pump roller tappet with that much off set. Will have to get a good look at how it rides on the lobe.
Thanks
Kurt

[xyzer]

My camshaft is shimmed enough so that the idler gear and camshaft gear are off set at least a 1/4 inch .  I think they did this to make sure that the tappets rotate no matter what.  I am concerned that if I run the engine with the cam shimmed at least 1/4 inch it may damage the gears.  Any help you all may suggest for the taper pin removal would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Kurt802

Hey Kurt...First I believe the cam lobes are offset on purpose! They just won't rotate on center! Also as Zeke mentioned it's like there pin sizes fall in between our sizes you will have to improvise. I like the aircraft tapered pins. I have had your problems. I would suggest you grind back both sides into the just below the surface of the collar and you will be able to see a fine line of where the pin and hole are. I found the smaller side of the 2 and went from there. If things are looking stubborn I would get a friend to hold some mass(sledge hammer) on the bottom side of the collor while you work on the small end of the pin. You want a good sharp blows. I'll cross my fingers while your at it! Look into the offset before you do anything drastic.
Dave

[Kurt802]

Thanks for all the help.  I decided to leave it alone for now.  Test ran the Metro 6/1 for the first time.  WOW! Much better live in the garage setting off the smoke alarms than watching a video.  It's running rich with fuel dripping out of the exhaust. I will have to time the fuel pump next.
Kurt

[hotater]

Kurt--

Instead of 'running rich' your engine is under worked. Put a load on it and it'll stop the slobbering.

[Kurt802]

Hotater, The slobbering did stop under load.  I found coolant water weeping out of the left side cast iron cylinder jacket a few inches above the deck   I will try some JB weld before attempting to spot weld the area.  I really don't want to weld cast iron.  It may rust itself closed.  Anybody had a similar experience?
Kurt

[hotater]

Kurt---

The cylinder is leaking??!     Naw!!   It's gotta be coming from a weeping head gasket but may be traveling under an especially nasty paint job to show up down there.  It would REALLY surprise me if water was coming through the cast iron.

Quinn has perfected the paint 'n plaster removal process using drain cleaner and water with a small circulator pump to keep the action going.  (I think he probably snorts boiled okra and chants and hums incantations during the new moon in preparation for it.)

The cylinder maintains only about 120 degrees at the deck and 160 at the head, so epoxy would be the sealer of choice, if needed.  Take a lesson from dentist if repairs are needed and grind out the area for repair with 'dovetail's to mechanically hold the epoxy in place.   I might be inclined to make a 'leaded' repair like old time body shops used to do.  It should work well.    Sealing cast iron at low temps offers a lot of solutions.

[JohnF13]

Kurt;

I have successefully repaired small leaks with epoxy - it lasted about 5000 hours before th engine was taken out of service to be rebuilt - the epoxy is still good.  Just remember to grind it out and key it properly.

[Kurt802]

I first noticed the blister under the paint while running the engine the other day.  I picked at the blister and hot water seeped through the cast iron like sweat on a fat guy.  I found several pores in about 3 square inches.  I rubbed some plumbers putty into the pores to keep the garage floor dry until I can give it a proper fix. The engine runs great with all the work I put into it.  I will grind and fill sometime this week.  Thanks for the suggestions