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Author Topic: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil  (Read 4147 times)

rpg52

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Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« on: February 22, 2007, 04:11:34 AM »
Hi everyone.
I ran across this discussion on another forum and thought there might be of interest here.  This guy seems to have a lot of experience with diesels, especially busses and trucks.  Not for everyone, but I found it interesting.  If you want to know about aluminium in contact with iron, he seems to be the goto guy too.   It would be really interesting to have him and Guy Fawkes in the same room.   http://buffalobus.blogspot.com/
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

rpg52

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2007, 05:34:13 PM »

My guess is that not many are willing to wade into PeterB's somewhat long-winded blog.  Here are a few topics he discusses:

1.  the 5 grades of fuel oils, differences between, where they are used and why. 
2.  why idling diesels are really bad - how piston shapes at room temp are so different than at 140 degrees - which causes dilution of oil.
3.  different formulations of aluminum, depending on their uses.  How galvanic corrosion eats up aluminum structures.
4.  how iron castings season, how seasoning of cast iron stabilizes engine blocks, how "green" cast iron warps under usage, how head bolts stretch under torque.
5.  how and why diesel "runaways" occur, the factors causing them, how to stop them (CO2).

And so on, I haven't read all of his topics, but he seems to have ~50 years of experience with engines and is fairly entertaining, though opinionated.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Ironworks

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2007, 06:03:24 PM »
The guy that delivers fuel oil tells me that the diesel comes out of the same tank, the only difference was the price.  Of course this was a few years ago so who knows now, with the implementation of ULSDF.  Personally I dont think that ULSDF has the lubricating qualities that No. 2 does.  I have even heard that ULSDF is so clean you can burn it in Kerosun heaters indoors (toatal rumors I have not tried this).  I add 2 stroke oil to ULSDF and my engines run better.

draganof

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2007, 07:25:32 PM »
ULSDF is banned from use in Cat 3500 series diesels. The stuff will destroy the injectors after about 20 hrs. The last engine I seen damaged by this fuel cost $35,000.00 for parts + labor. I wouldn't run the stuff.

Changfa 195 and ST10
8kw Yanmar/Kohler

Tom

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2007, 08:22:57 PM »
Anyone have any predictions as to how ULSDF will affect our Listeroids?
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

hotater

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2007, 03:53:45 AM »
The guy that delivers my diesel every year says he fills heating tanks and farm tractor tanks and my generator tanks with the same #2 'off road' red diesel.  In winter he adds #1 (Kerosene) about 50% to keep home heating tanks thawed and free flowing.  His truck handles both fuels and has a tank for pumping out old fuel from wet rusty tanks.  That old fuel goes to the asphalt plant.
......or so *he* says.    ;)
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

swedgemon

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Re: Diesel Fuel vs Fuel Oil
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2007, 01:01:21 AM »
If the "off-road diesel" or heating oil that you are getting is the old Low Sulfur Diesel (500 ppm sulfur) or 500 ppm heating oil, it is good to go in any diesel engine.  If, however, your off-highway diesel or heating oil is coming off most any pipeline, it will almost certainly be ULSD (15 ppm sulfur or less).  Any ultra low fuel sold as diesel, on-highway or off-highway, will have a lubricity additive injected into it at the fuel terminal rack, as it is being pumped into a fuel transport.  Ultra Low Sulfur heating oil, however will NOT have the lubricity additive in it, resulting in heavy wear on fuel-lubricated injector parts.

The lubricity additive is injected at a rate so as to achieve less than a 520-micron scar on the HFRR test (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig) in the US...it is a 460-micron max scar requirement in Europe.  ULSD blended with 2% soy-based bio fuel will produce a 320-micron scar on the HFRR (this is great performance)...additional bio will produce no improvement (B30, B40, etc., will still get a 320-micron scar).

As I mentioned on another post, Cat supports up to B30 in their heritage-Cat engines (3208, 3306, 3406, 3508, C-series, etc), but will support no more than B5 in their heritage-Perkins (Perkipillars).  Higher than B5 in rotary-type fuel pumps (as used on Perkins, VW, Powerstroke, Duramax, Mitsubishi, etc) produces high wear rates and failed pumps (Humvee fuel pumps all had to be upgraded with hardened components when the military went to jet fuel in all their military vehicles (jet fuel can have no lubricity additives since turbine engines have trouble with it).

Swedgemon
Somewhere in Kentucky
GM-90  6/1