Author Topic: turpentine?  (Read 9323 times)

trickn7474

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turpentine?
« on: September 08, 2006, 02:06:35 AM »
I live in the south, lots of pine trees. In the old days, as late as the 1970's they would tap the pine trees for rosen, to distill into turpentine etc. I wonder if a diesel substitute would be feasable? Anyone have thoughts on this.

Rick




















lgsracer

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2006, 02:51:57 AM »
It is flammable, but what kind of residue will it leave?

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH GUIDELINE FOR TURPENTINE

INTRODUCTION

This guideline summarizes pertinent information about turpentine for workers and employers as well as for physicians, industrial hygienists, and other occupational safety and health professionals who may need such information to conduct effective occupational safety and health programs. Recommendations may be superseded by new developments in these fields; readers are therefore advised to regard these recommendations as general guidelines and to determine periodically whether new information is available.

SUBSTANCE IDENTIFICATION

* Formula

C(10)H(16) (approximate formula); turpentine has a minimum alpha-pinene content of 40 percent by weight

* Structure

(For Structure, see paper copy)

* Synonyms

Gum spirits, turps, gum thus, D.D. turpentine, wood turpentine, oil of turpentine, rectified turpentine oil, spirits of turpentine, sulfate wood turpentine, sulfate turpentine, gum turpentine, steam-distilled turpentine.

* Identifiers

1. CAS 8006-64-2.

2. RTECS YO8400000.

3. DOT UN: 1299 27.

4. DOT label: None if gum spirits; Flammable Liquid if wood spirits.

* Appearance and odor

Turpentine is a volatile mixture of hydrocarbon isomers obtained either from pine gum or pine wood. Gum turpentine is a yellowish, sticky, opaque, combustible material; the wood distillate (oil of turpentine) is a flammable, colorless liquid with a characteristic odor.

CHEMICAL AND PHYSICAL PROPERTIES

* Physical data (properties vary with the specific product)

1. Molecular weight: Approximately 136.

2. Boiling point (760 torr): 150 to 180 degrees C (302 to 356 degrees F).

3. Specific gravity (water = 1): 0.86 to 0.90 at 15 degrees C (59 degrees F).

4. Vapor density (air = 1 at boiling point of turpentine): 4.6 to 4.8.

5. Melting point: -50 to -60 degrees C (-58 to -76 degrees F).

6. Vapor pressure at 20 degrees C (68 degrees F): 5 torr.

7. Solubility: Insoluble in water; soluble in alcohol, ether, chloroform, and glacial acetic acid.

8. Evaporation rate (butyl acetate = 1): Below 1.0.

* Reactivity

1. Conditions contributing to instability: Heat, exposure to air in a confined space, and sources of ignition.

2. Incompatibilities: Contact of turpentine with oxidation catalysts or with strong oxidizing agents (especially chlorine) may cause fires and explosions.

3. Hazardous decomposition products: Toxic gases and vapors (such as carbon monoxide and the partial oxidation products of terpenes) may be released in a fire involving turpentine.

4. Special precautions: Turpentine attacks some coatings and some forms of plastic and rubber.

* Flammability

The National Fire Protection Association has assigned a flammability rating of 3 (severe fire hazard) to turpentine.

1. Flash point: 35 degrees C (95 degrees F) (closed cup).

2. Autoignition temperature: 253 degrees C (488 degrees F).

3. Flammable limits in air (percent by volume): Lower, 0.8; upper, Data not available.

4. Extinguishant: Use water fog, dry chemical, foam, or carbon dioxide to fight fires involving turpentine. A water spray may be ineffective, but it may be used to cool fire-exposed containers. If a leak or spill has not ignited, water spray also may be used to disperse vapors and to protect persons attempting to stop the leak.

Fires involving turpentine should be fought upwind and from the maximum distance possible. Keep unnecessary people away; isolate hazard area and deny entry. Emergency personnel should stay out of low areas and ventilate closed spaces before entering. Vapor explosion and poison hazards may occur indoors, outdoors, or in sewers. Vapors may travel to a source of ignition and flash back. Containers of turpentine may explode in the heat of the fire and should be moved from the fire area if it is possible to do so safely. If this is not possible, cool containers from the sides with water until well after the fire is out. Stay away from the ends of containers. Personnel should withdraw immediately if a rising sound from a venting safety device is heard or if there is discoloration of a container due to fire. Dikes should be used to contain fire-control water for later disposal. If a tank car or truck is involved in a fire, personnel should isolate an area of a half a mile in all directions. Firefighters should wear a full set of protective clothing, including a self-contained breathing apparatus, when fighting fires involving turpentine. Firefighters' protective clothing may provide limited protection against fires involving turpentine.

* Warning properties

The odor threshold for turpentine is 200 parts per million (ppm) parts of air. Because this value is above the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) current permissible exposure limit (PEL) of 100 ppm [29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-1-A], turpentine is considered to have inadequate warning properties.

* Eye irritation properties

The eye irritation threshold for turpentine is 175 ppm.

Rtqii

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2006, 06:19:59 AM »
* Flammability

The National Fire Protection Association has assigned a flammability rating of 3 (severe fire hazard) to turpentine.

1. Flash point: 35 degrees C (95 degrees F) (closed cup).

2. Autoignition temperature: 253 degrees C (488 degrees F).

Too flammable... It will pre-detonate when used in a diesel engine. It may be possible to use oil of turpentine to cut heavier oil, but it is not suitable as a diesel fuel substitute straight up. Also, there are various grades of turpentine and I think you will end up with excessive gum and varnish deposits unless you use a highly refined grade.

bitsnpieces1

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2006, 10:08:44 PM »
  The Turpentiners used to use the turpentine to fuel their vehicles and especially the tractors used in production work.  They used a standard spark ignition engine with rejetted carb and  modified compression ratio.   Standard enough that you could get the parts [ piston, carb ] as readily available parts for you tractor, such as a Farmall.  Could also get the setup to run it on kerosene.  You could switch back and forth if you needed to. 
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

trickn7474

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2006, 12:51:53 AM »
My orginal idea was to cut waste motor oil with turpentine.  I wanted to experiment with it. I don't know how turpentine is made any more, but I intend to find out how they made it in the past.


Rick

bitsnpieces1

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2006, 01:14:16 AM »
  Process was similar to maple syrup making.  There you would drill a hole and insert a tube to drain sap.  For a pine tree you cut a very shallow V groove through the bark which causes the sap to drain out.  Place a sheet metal flap to catch the sap and drain it into a bucket.  Then take the collected sap and put it into a still and heat.  Condense the evaporate in a colling coil (a lot like a whisky still) and you've got turpentine.  The solids left in the bottom of the boiler is known as rosin.  This practice isn't used much today as the demand for turpentine isn't as high as it used to be.  It used to be the preffered solvent/diluter for oil paints.  Today they use mineral spirits (petroleum).  You may be able to find some old pine trees with what looks like chevron scaring on the sides  about chest height.  These are most likely from tapping for turpentine. 
  Mostly what they seem to do these days is to pull up the stups from cut trees, haul them away in trucks or trains and do a grind up and distill process.  Production would be high enough to cover todays needs. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2006, 01:17:44 AM by bitsnpieces1 »
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

trickn7474

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2006, 06:54:44 AM »
There WERE alot of old tupentine trees on my land before Katrina. I never wanted to cut those trees because you don't see them much any more. Some of them still had the boxes still attached. I wanted my grand kids to see them. I lost ever one of them. It is a shame.

hotater

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Re: turpentine?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 01:11:36 PM »
The last time I went back home to Florida I brought back an old fat lightered  'cat's face' and have it standing in my Idaho living room.

There was a time when vast tracts of pines had the chevon cuts on them.

"Naval Stores", is what the turpentine products were called.  A close family friend owend the still in Tallahassee and the day it burned is etched in my memory.  BLACK smoke far into the sky.
The family became fabulously wealthy because the Patriarch of the family didn't believe in renting turpentine land for the customary nickle an acre per year...he bought it for a quarter, instead.   ;)
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.