Author Topic: Intake heater grids  (Read 18873 times)

unimogr

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Intake heater grids
« on: February 05, 2007, 04:20:26 PM »

I was looking for glow plugs for a Holder tractor I own when I found that Beru makes an intake heater grid.  I think I read in about some people thinking about removing a grid from a Cummins, but there maybe one out there already that will bolt up without changing anything.

http://www.beru.com/english/produkte/kaltstarthilfen_fuer_nutzfahrzeuge.php

They also have a flame start system on the same page.  I don't know much about flame start but I've heard it's very effective in getting a cold diesel running as well.

Jason

Stan

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 06:27:55 PM »
Looks expensive!  I hope to get Penelope up and running while it's still cold but my project manager seems to have quite a few "projects" for me to do first.  I'm thinking of a small wire holder for a propane torch that would direct the flame up into the intake flange.  Take the air filter off, place the torch in the holder, light the torch, turn the flywheel and (if it works) start the engine.  That's the plan.  KISS   :-*
Stan

Doug

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 07:24:33 PM »
My 05 Jetta decided -30 was too cold to start this morning.

I suspect our engines are not going to start at those teperatures as well lol...

1 hour plugged in and some extra cranking and it started....

Doug

dkwflight

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 11:12:56 PM »
Hi I've had a cold spell here in Florida. Last week I couldn't start the 28/2. I just could not turn it fast enough to get through the first compression.
I used a large weed burner, LP to warm the 2" pipe in my cooling system. 6-7 minutes. I could then turn it fast enough to get the first power stroke. Then it was going normally.

The heated water in the pipe was circulated back through the engine, warming it.
I thought about an electric heater like one other I read about here. If the mains were off I couldn't use the heater, unless IT could be run off a battery at 12 volts.
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

ZackaryMac

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 01:13:08 AM »
They also have a flame start system on the same page.  I don't know much about flame start but I've heard it's very effective in getting a cold diesel running as well.

Jason


I work at a tractor repair/sales place, and the shop foreman has been there 20 years, and he gets to work on all kinds of tractors/equipment. He tells me that some tractors have exactly that: a start assist that makes a flame in the intake manifold. I haven't seen one, but I guess it uses a electric heater coil to ignite a small spray of diesel fuel into the intake, and the engine sucks this up along with the air. He said it was a good working system. I don't know what model tractors have this, but he'll know.

 I guess any system that reliably and safely starts our diesels is a good system.
Kubota EL300A-R 4hp 12v Generator
Kubota B6100 HST Compact Tractor
Onan RDJA 8hp
1994 Chev S10 w/Isuzu C223
All are diesel.

Tom

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 04:36:28 AM »
My 50k btu propane weed burner gets the job done fast! I think a grid in the intake would add restriction to the air flow when not needed.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

fattywagonman

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 01:55:44 PM »
Hi Guys,
I've found heating the injector with a propane torch is most effective for cold starts...

unimogr

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 04:10:57 PM »

Another good, but costly way to get a diesel going in the cold is an Espar heater:

http://espar.com/htm/Specs/water/D4Wspec.htm

I installed one on my old Mercedes diesel and it never let me down.  I set the timer, let the heater run for 20 minutes and the engine is nice and hot and starts instantly even in the coldest weather.

The kit I bought cost $1000 but given the fact that I no longer need to worry about plugging my car in and it's worked flawlessly for 3 years now I think it's money well spent.

If I buy a water cooled Lister/Listeroid I'd likely buy another heater and plumb it in since I would want a sure fire method of getting the engine running on that one day a year when it's -40 and the power just went out.

Jason

Andre Blanchard

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 05:08:22 PM »

Another good, but costly way to get a diesel going in the cold is an Espar heater:

http://espar.com/htm/Specs/water/D4Wspec.htm

I installed one on my old Mercedes diesel and it never let me down.  I set the timer, let the heater run for 20 minutes and the engine is nice and hot and starts instantly even in the coldest weather.

The kit I bought cost $1000 but given the fact that I no longer need to worry about plugging my car in and it's worked flawlessly for 3 years now I think it's money well spent.

If I buy a water cooled Lister/Listeroid I'd likely buy another heater and plumb it in since I would want a sure fire method of getting the engine running on that one day a year when it's -40 and the power just went out.

Jason

I like my version better, burns wood and only cost $30 at a farm auction. :)



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Andre' B

Stan

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 05:24:29 PM »
But will it fit into the intake manifold?   ;D
Stan

rpg52

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 09:20:41 PM »
Old Detroit Diesels had a flame starter for cold starts.  It consisted of an igniter and a jet for diesel.  You pumped the diesel by hand which made quite a flame I'm told.  I had to take mine off my old engine because it was rusted and parts are no longer available for it.  I dont have really cold temps, but below 70 degrees F it won't light off without a tad of ether.  Seems like any source of heat will get them going though unless it is really cold.

So, Andre, do you just heat the room the Lister is in with the little stove?  Since I drain my cooling water, I've found that filling with hot tap water works wonders for cold engines.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Andre Blanchard

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2007, 10:02:17 PM »
So, Andre, do you just heat the room the Lister is in with the little stove?  Since I drain my cooling water, I've found that filling with hot tap water works wonders for cold engines.
Ray

That is a hot water heater sold by Sears.  It will bring 10 gallons of 40°F water up to boiling in 15 to 20 minutes.
I plan to plume it in to the cooling system and use it to preheat the entire engine to running temps before starting, may even do so in the summer.




Will look something like this.

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Andre' B

SCOTT

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2007, 11:28:45 PM »
Guys
If you want to heat the engine, use a water heater.  Go to Home depot buy a $7 1500 watt 120v water heater element with a 1” NPT thread, add a 1” black pipe “T” and a 4” nipple and then you are done.  It would look like this:




Add enough nipple to accommodate the heating element
Attach “T” in upside down position with an opening facing up for coolant hose
Insert heater element into the remaining opening parallel to the ground

Now there are a few ways to control the heat output.
1)   time how long the element needs to be on, at a given air or internal water temp, to raise the water temp to the desired level.  For arguments sake say 15 min.  Buy a $5 light timer and set the first “on” series to 15 min BEFORE you expect to start the engine each morning
2)   Attach the same water heater element to a thermal switch $20 which is in turn on a timer, the normal condition for the switch will be on and it will turn off at a pre determined temp, say 70 deg  f.  The timer can go on every morning at 7:00 am and off at 8:00 or whatever you set it at.  This way if you decide not to run the engine it will not stay on too long.  Two conditions must be met for the element to be on temp<70 and time of day between 7:00 and 8:00 am

If 1500 watts it too much add a dimmer and reduce the wattage. Adjust on time accordingly.

This should be a cheap, clean, reliable way to schedule a warm engine for startup.

Best regards
Scott
net metering with a 6/1 in Connecticut
12/1
6/1

Stan

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2007, 11:33:07 PM »
Looks good, for you guys using it as daily electrical provider.  Cheap, easy to set up.  You need to make sure the hot water isn't going to circulate up to your tank/rad and then back down to the heater bypassing the engine.

Me, I want something non-electric so I can come home when the power is out and it's -25 deg and heat up Penelope.  It's propane or battery!  Propane's cheaper and simpler.
Stan

dkwflight

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Re: Intake heater grids
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 12:09:43 AM »
Hi If you have mains electricity then the water heater element and a water heater thermostat to control it is fine.

If you are off grid then you will have to consider alternate ideas like the wood fired water heater. This should work fine. A similar heater for propane fuel would be a pipe with in a pipe type. This is easily made by a competent welder.

My experience with a 28/2 is the stiff cold oil in the cylinder is the major impediment. If you cannot turn the engine over fast enough then fire or heat in the intake will not help.

Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time