Author Topic: Ant acid for lube oil  (Read 7370 times)

dkwflight

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Ant acid for lube oil
« on: February 05, 2007, 03:18:24 AM »
Hi I ranacross this. I thought it was interesting.
Mabe we should consider a zinc anode in the sumps.

Luber-finer Bypass Filter Cartridge System
The familiar Luber-finer bypass filter now has a cartridge system that not only filters engine lube oil, but adds an additional anti-acid medium to maintain the lubrication's total base number. The Zgard LFP9750 uses filtration technology to aid in reducing soot levels in the oil.

According to Luber-finer, this enables the extending of drain intervals in EGR engines, which tend to load up the lube oil with additional soot through the recirculation of the exhaust gas. Additionally, because current fuels contain significant levels of sulfur, there is the potential for high acidity in the oil, which quickly depletes the oil's TBN.

By constructing the filter cartridge from a louvered zinc alloy sheet, co-pleated with an ultra high efficiency filter media, the zinc is sacrificed to the acid in the lube oil, preserving the additive package in the oil.

The Zgard bypass filter is constructed with two cartridge elements to provide the maximum efficiency throughout the regular filter-change interval.

28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

Stan

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 04:10:58 AM »
I guess I can toss a zinc coated nail in the fuel filter housing ;)
Stan

dkwflight

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2007, 01:04:28 AM »
HiPerhaps a zinc in the fuel storage tanks would be good? I don't know.

A zinc anode in the sump wouldn't hurt either.

A Zinc anode has to be fastened to the metal tank, casting, to complete the circuit.

I bought an anode from Mcmaster-carr for my cooling system. I'll let you know how it does.

Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

Stan

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2007, 01:43:37 AM »
I thought something about this thread twigged my faltering memory cells!   Here's a quote from the 1970 Lister CS 6/1, 12/2 manual from page 4 entitled "Fuel Service Tank".

" Tanks and piping should NOT be galvanized".  The caps on "NOT" are found in the manual.  I wonder why NOT?
Stan

dkwflight

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2007, 02:21:51 AM »
Hi
Thats what my manual says too!
Any ideas why.
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

mobile_bob

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2007, 02:31:38 AM »
do not put anything galvanized in diesel fuel or use a galvanized tank for diesel fuel
the fuel reacts with the zinc
and will transfer into the injector body and play heck with the injector

i remember this from years ago, with detroit and cummins, and i am sure with other makes as well

as for anti acid in the oil, i see no benefit here either.

with the new federally mandated low sulpher fuel i doubt there is going to be any measurable rise
in acidity in the oil. at least for folks that change their oil on a fairly regular basis.

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
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Stan

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2007, 04:39:04 AM »
I wonder what that's already done to Penelope's injector (although the local fuel injection people that rebuilt it seemed to think it was fine) as she had been run with a galvanized tank for the last 58 years, I'm sure with the same injector.
Stan

mobile_bob

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 05:03:25 AM »
perhaps the interior was not galvanized but rather tierne plate or tinned?

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info

swedgemon

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 12:48:25 PM »
A little zinc in the lube oil is usually good (zinc is an anti-wear additive), but zinc in your fuel is not good (leads to galvanic corrosion and varnish deposits).

Regarding injector wear, since last June-July all US refineries have been producing Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (15 ppm or less Sulfur).  When one extracts some of the longer hydrocarbons and almost all of the sulfur from diesel fuel, most of the lubricity of the fuel is gone.  To overcome this a lubricity additive is injected into diesel fuel as the ULSD is being pumped into fuel tankers.  The alternative to a lubricity additive is the addition of about 2% soy-based biodiesel.  The test standard is a max scar of 520-microns in what is called the HFRR test (High Frequency Reciprocating Rig)...most fuel terminals add enough additive to get a 460-500-micron max scar...addition of 2% biodiesel will give a 320-micron scar.

The real kicker here is that most heating oil is now Ultra Low Sulfur Heating Oil (comes thru the same pipeline and is stored in the same fuel tanks at many fuel terminals)...red dye is added, but NO LUBRICITY ADDITIVE  is put into the heating oil.  When one buys heating oil and burns it in ANY diesel, unseen damage is being done to the injection pump and nozzle(s).  If you are burning 15 ppm sulfur heating oil, be certain to put lubricity additive into the heating oil.  To avoid road taxes when buying diesel fuel, buy Off-Highway Diesel Fuel.  Any fuel sold as diesel fuel will have the lubricity additive (or 2% biodiesel) in it and will run fairly well in any diesel.

Of interest is Caterpillar's stance on biodiesel fuels...any heritage Cat engine (C-series, 3208, 3306, 3406, 3408, 3508, 3600-Series, etc.) is good up to B30 (30% soy-based biodiesel).  If using above B30 (B40, B60, etc.), any fuel related problems are yours.  On heritage Perkins engines (Perkipillars) the biodiesel limit is 5% (B5).  Apparently there are problems with higher percentage biodiesel in engines with rotary fuel injection pumps (Ford, GM, Perkins, Mitsubishi, etc.), although I do not know the precise nature of the problems.

Swedgemon
Somewhere in Kentucky
GM-90  6/1

dkwflight

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2007, 12:32:36 AM »
Hi
I suspect the bio diesel affects the seals and "O" rings in those engines.

My injecter guy says add lube oil to all diesel now. Biodiesel has enough lubricity to help.

Some of the oldtimers added ATF to the fuel, claimed it helped clean the injecters. I'm sure it lubes them too.

Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

draganof

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2007, 02:48:57 AM »
The problem I have seen with the few customers that have attempted to run Bio-Diesel in their generators is the injectors are failing due to lack of lubrication. Now , with that said we do have some customers that are running pure vegetable oils and even one major seafood company that is running fish oil in some cat engines. So far the fish oil is marginally successful (lots of impurities) but the vegi oil is doing pretty good. As soon as Cat figures out how to turn a profit with customers running bio-diesel then we will see some serious work by the factory to adapt our engines to run the bio-diesel.

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okiezeke

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2007, 02:55:13 AM »
Ant acid is formic.
Zeke
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rmchambers

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Re: Ant acid for lube oil
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2007, 04:27:09 AM »
A stinging response!