Author Topic: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed  (Read 8933 times)

jtodd

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Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« on: January 26, 2007, 05:33:21 PM »

I purchased a Lister-Blackstone CD diesel engine at an estate sale a few months ago, and I'm finally getting around to bringing it to life. 

I know about the CD-style datasheets on the Oldengine.org site (http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Technical/CDP1data.htm) but the Lister-Blackstone I have apparently doesn't match any of those exactly.  My engine has the following specs:

 - lever-based compression changeover (three "notches" or settings)
 - made in the US ("Wisconsin")
 - has a single flywheel (the crank only sticks out on one side, so this isn't a "retrofit" - there are two small offset drive pulleys on the other side)
 - 8hp according to build plate
 - 1200 RPM according to the build plate
 - intake and exhaust on opposite sides of engine
 - single injector (which matches, of course, the single cyl)

I'm still removing it from it's mounts and cleaning it before startup, but any advice anyone has on this engine or resources they could point me to would be really appreciated.  As a baseline, here are some of my questions:

 - how much oil does it take?
 - how, exactly, do I operate the compression switchover lever during startup?
 - any idea where specs for spare parts can be found, if I need them?  (rings, bearings, valves)
 - how to determine build year?
 - are these BSW for the bolts/nuts/threads or ...?

I'll try to get some pictures this weekend when I'm doing work on it.

JT

dieselgman

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2007, 07:09:08 PM »
We have some old Lister/Blackstone literature and I will pull it to see if it matches your specs at all. Keeping a watch on eBay sometimes turns up old literature of this type as well, you can post a 'want it now' ad for your specifics and sometimes get what you need fairly quickly.

Best of luck with your project!

Gary
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dieselgman

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 07:29:48 PM »
Do you have a model/serial number for your engine?

The only lit I've managed to turn up here is from Rootes-Lister Blackstone Marine Ltd. for a TS3MGR (a parts guide) and have some other Rootes Lister locomotive manuals for 2-cycle engines of that period.

Looks to me like some of these models had British Standard threads on fasteners and others had Unified Threads. The Rootes-Lister parts book lists unified threads on everything.

I'll be sure to let you know if anything else turns up.

Gary
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jtodd

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 07:47:05 PM »
Do you have a model/serial number for your engine?

I believe it's "1233" but that's from memory - I'm not in front of the engine.  It's clearly labelled "Lister-Blackstone" on the build plate and cast into the valve cover and base mount plate.  The build plate also says "Wisconsin, USA", "8hp" and "CD" as the model type.  I've rooted around in quite a bit of documentation, and so far haven't found anything that quite looks like or is described like what this engine is. 

JT

jtodd

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 05:24:23 PM »
So, I started taking some bits and pieces off the engine today, and was kind of disturbed by what I found in the cooling system, at least.  Lots of rust.  Really dried up rust.  Ultimately, I think I'd like to take the whole engine apart into component pieces and send them to a dip tank, but I'm somewhat concerned about the fact that once taken apart, I have no specifications for re-construction, no gaskets, no replacement parts, and no clues.  While I like DIY, I also appreciate at least the hope of some components - my shop doesn't contain any gear cutters or end mills or the sophisticated tools to do serious reconstruction of components.  Gaskets - no problem.  Valves... uh...

Anyway, here are some pictures (link below).  This engine doesn't match any of the CD engine drawings or photos that I've seen, since it only seems to be meant to have a single flywheel, since the other side of the crank is very short and has a pulley on it.  The intake is visible on the top of the rocker cover (there is an internal galley cast into in the rocker cover that moves the air around; very interesting) and I've taken the water inlet/outlet fittings off in the pictures.  It seems to have an oil pump and removeable oil pan, which is probably next to be removed since the oil I drained out of it was pretty horrific and before I do a test-start I'd like to clear out whatever gunk is left in there.

So... anyone with ANY clues about where to get parts for this (US, UK, AU, NZ, IN, wherever...) could you drop me a line?  I've tried Lister US ("We don't stock anything for those engines any more") and everyone that has been recommended has come up dry, mostly claiming that something called a "Lister-Blackstone CD" was never built according to their parts guides, or that they'd never heard of even "Lister-Blackstone."

From what I've been able to determine, my ANSI spec tools open it up fine, but I don't know if these are bolts that were original or not since the bolts on the exterior seem to be from a mixed lot (many have different head markings, even where they would typically be the same.)  However, it was made in Wisconsin, so I'm going to bet and say they're not BSW.

The previous owner did some things in a way that I would not have done (well... actually... he did almost everything in a way that I would not have done.)  So I'll be getting rid of the rain-collector muffler (no rust in there; it was stored inside), the horrible fuel lines (I didn't think you could weld fuel line), the plumbing pipe welded to the water inlet/outlets (funny thing is that it just was hose-clamped, anyway), adding an air cleaner, removing the drowned dead mice from the "demonstration" coolant circulation pump, etc. etc.  I'm stunned that this engine seems to have no difficulty spinning, and appears well-lubricated.  I think that is simply due to the oil-hazed storage environment.

http://www.loligo.com/lister/lister-blackstone-cd/pictures/index.html

JT
« Last Edit: January 29, 2007, 05:36:50 PM by jtodd »

listerdiesel

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 07:45:37 PM »
Lister engines in the USA were sold by Lister-Blackstone Inc, based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

CD and CE engines were produced under licence by Nordberg, and have a separate series of engine numbers with four digits, starting at 1000 if my memory serves me correctly.

Threads were US, NOT UK, but early engines were built from kits shipped out from Dursley, so very early serial numbers may well have a mixture of threads.

Single flywheel engines were not uncommon, and most CD and CE engines had lever-operated compression change-over, there was even a CS model that had this feature as well.

The air inlet is through the rocker cover so can be almost anywhere the casting leads it to, so a special rocker cover could be made with the inlet anywhere around the head's four sides.

Blackstone were a separate company, but were bought up by Lister, and although they operated as a separate entity, in the USA they combined the names in their sales literature.

See Michael Key's Blackstone website for a fuller description of the company origins:

http://www.oldengine.org/members/blkstone/History1.htm

Spares are certainly not plentiful, although injector parts can be obtained.

I have replied here rather than by email so that the others can see the information as well.


listerdiesel

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Re: Lister-Blackstone CD - data needed
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 07:51:05 PM »
Looking at the pictures, it could be a marine auxiliary engine, as the crankcase with the flywheel missing looks to have the holes drilled and tapped for the gearbox. It could also be an industrial engine as well with gearbox or PTO take-off.

That engine number fits the sequence OK, it is quite an early example.

Peter