Author Topic: Design Parameters for cooling water system  (Read 10256 times)

buffdownunder

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Design Parameters for cooling water system
« on: January 18, 2007, 03:54:46 AM »
Hi there,

I received my refurbished orignal Lister CS6/1 and I was wondering what I have to consider when looking for the right cooling water setup. I have seen people just using the standard big oil drums but I also heard something like 70 litre of cooling water for every horse power. That would mean that I need 420 litre of cooling water.

Is there any information around on how high the maximum inlet temperature is for cooling water?

Regards,
Edward

PS: How do I make sure that my cooling water drum doesn't rust and the rust doesn't go into the engine?

snail

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 05:28:00 AM »
Buff,
     I've just got  a single 44 gallon drum on my 12/2. On the hottest days (35 +) it will just boil if I load the generator heavily. I'm sure that it will be enough for a 6/1. Can use up to 40L of water a day though.If you've got the time now I'd go for a radiator and fan . I will when I'm in the mood :)Don't forget the thermostat (smallest Hyundai excel from repco) cos they definitely burn better when hot.

Cheers,

Brian

buffdownunder

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 03:17:52 PM »
This is where I thought that a radiator would be overkill.
It's good to hear that a normal drum should do the job. I will use this first and monitor how hot the water gets.
Thanks Snail.
Edward

dkwflight

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 10:40:40 PM »
Hi If you go for a drum cooling system you need a t-stat. 195 degrees. This helps the engine to warm quicker. Running hot helps the new oils stay cleaner. Less condensation.
This is what I see in my engine.
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

buffdownunder

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 07:56:56 PM »
How do I connect the thermostat so that it works (inlet or outlet) and is there any type suggestion?
Thanks,
Edward

buffdownunder

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 08:03:07 PM »
Can use up to 40L of water a day though.If you've got the time now I'd go for a radiator and fan

Hi Brian,

What is so good about a radiator fan connection that you accept all the auxilliaries that go with it? If it is just the water boiling away you could ad a simple cooling device to the drum to keep the temperature under the boiling point. Just blow air into the water. I haven't calculated it yet but a aquarium blower should do the job. You could also close the drum and make a cooling tower with a few metres of copper pipe where the evaporating water condensates again and flows back.

Cheers,
Edward

t19

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 09:46:39 PM »
What is so hard about using a Van rad with a 12 or 120 volt fan and a thermostat??

It is the easiest and less maint solution... and the junk yards are full of them


Andrew
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

Stan

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 09:57:54 PM »
Edward, I am connecting my 74 dodge 440 thermostat on the outlet squeezed between 2 gaskets.  This particular thermostat has a very thin outer edge and should  ::)(haven't filled her up with water yet) squeeze nicely.  Dont' forget to drill a 1/8" hole in the thermostat to allow air/water to escape while filling or else you might have an empty head due to an air lock.
Stan

buffdownunder

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2007, 01:48:30 AM »
What is so hard about using a Van rad with a 12 or 120 volt fan and a thermostat??

It is the easiest and less maint solution... and the junk yards are full of them


Andrew

Reliability and installation Andrew. A radiator is pressurized and my setup is pure 240 AC so I would have to need transformers, .... to make it happen and every part is one part more that can fail. I just like the simplicity of the drum setup

Stan

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2007, 04:13:01 PM »
Lister rads aren't pressurized.  They have a (3/16th) pipe that starts at the top, right under the cap, and exits out the bottom of the rad.  This allows extra water to exit the rad when it expands, and also keeps the rad from pressurizing.
Stan

snail

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 11:21:37 PM »
Buff,
     with the drum,I'm checking water levels every couple of hours, just to be on the safe side.On days like today(stinking hot) I start the machine before I go to work and then my wife has to supervise it. One less thing to check (potentially disastrous if unchecked) would keep everyone happier. Your 6/1 probably won't consume anywhere near as much water,so this shouln't be such an issue.
    Nothing wrong with the condenser idea if its effective.Saves installing /powering a fan and reduces the potential for failure."If it feels good, do it" :D
    If you use the small diameter thermostat, you can turn a recess in the standard water outlet in a few minutes. This makes fitting really easy and it's one less gasket (to leak!)

Cheers,

Brian

snail

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2007, 12:03:42 AM »
Buff,
     I've been thinking about this one, and I'll give your condenser idea a try. The drum's already installed so it's an easy add on. If it doesn't cure the problem completely ,then I'm sure that a second drum will (another"one day" job :D )
I've got a coil of ordinary 10mm ID "domestic" tube from another project(no, not a still ;D ) so if I knock up a support for it,then weld the whole lot to the "clip top" lid then the whole lot becomes a bolt on addition. That suits my time constraints better than a rad, and the machine doesn't even have to be stopped.
     I'd be happier with 1" tube to cut down the gas velocity bit. Maybe several 10mm coils in parallel will achieve the desired result.If I did get a length of 1",maybe 6 "chimneys" about a metre high would do the trick.
     The more I think about this, the more advantages I see. Has anyone got any input on a simple air cooled condenser design? Keep in mind ambient temperatures of 35+ centigrade and a fair bit of solar radiation (the drum is outside the shed).
     
Cheers,

Brian

rmchambers

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2007, 01:01:29 AM »
If it's outside under the hot Australian sun I'd say paint the bugger white or silver, anything but black.

snail

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2007, 01:20:55 AM »
Quote
If it's outside under the hot Australian sun I'd say paint the bugger white or silver, anything but black.

I won't tell you what colour it is, suffice to say it works better at night!! :-[

cheers,

Brian

Guy_Incognito

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Re: Design Parameters for cooling water system
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2007, 03:07:38 AM »
I wonder if a drum-within-a-drum setup would be a better solution.

Eg. Weld a smaller drum inside a larger one, knock out the floor of the smaller drum so air can flow up the centre.
Less water, heats to temp quicker, but nearly twice the surface area of a single drum to radiate heat from.
Less heat transferred via evaporation from the top of the tank but that does mean less water used as well.

Would be cheaper for those that are using alternative coolants too.

For topping up, my tank will be connected to our house supply with a toilet cistern float valve in a separate pipe on the side, attached to bottom of the main tank with 1/2" pipe with a heat trap loop in it. This should be able to keep the tank level under control without cooking the plastic float valve.

Should being the operative word there, I haven't put it together yet.  :D