Author Topic: Ideal RPM  (Read 21483 times)

fattywagonman

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2007, 03:26:10 PM »
Hi Ranexs,

Most snowmobiles use a CVT like the comet...not really an automatic transmission..  here's a link to their site...

http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/oem-torque-converters.asp

When an automatic transmission (like the one in your car or pickup) shifts it changes gears... it just does it hydraulically.... shifting doesn't work on a generator since the speed must remain very constant... 


fattywagonman

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2007, 04:08:19 PM »
Hi Robert,

Here are some answers to your questions...

I'm a marine contractor by trade and have owned several tugs and crane barges which all need a generator running continuously....I started building my own generator about 15 years ago when I realized the could be assembled for much less than when purchased as a complete unit..

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It sounds like you're thinking way into the future which is a good thing.  It would be great to be able to store all the excess energy you generate to keep the engine running in its sweet spot but in order to do that you'd need a slew of expensive/heavy batteries or some other way to store electrical energy as potential energy.


I originally got into the variable speed idea when I realized how much fuel is consumed by a generator just running at rated speed with no load... These generators are usually in the 20-50kW range... most likely not good candidates for an inverter system since a lot of power would need to be stored. A system that uses high frequency  AC rectified to DC and then inverted back to AC might also be the way to go if the inverter component becomes more available.. The alternator in your can is a fantastic expample of a reliable variable speed system... I do this on a small scale with my minipetter PM gen where the speed controls the output and there is considerable slip in the alternator.. it's just that there aren't a lot of 30kW variable output alternators available...

I'm also a big fan of CHP off grid power... so I thought a small CHP generator (1-3kW) working with an inverter / battery system seemed like the best way to accomplish this.. using the gen to keep the batteries at 60-70% also leaves room for solar or wind power to be stored.. the 5548 has a peak momentary output of 15kW so it's able to handle most spikes any home would encounter.

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Are you grid connected at all?  the SW can be made to grid-tie so perhaps you could push back some excess power to the grid and run the meter backwards.  If you're not grid connected then ignore this.

I have grid tied the 5548 when it was hooked to the minipetter DC gen just to see how it worked... It works well but only when there's excess DC power... so as the batteries reach full charge it starts dumping into the grid... 

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Not sure where you get your water from etc but could you channel some excess power to moving water from one place to another place higher up such as from a well or cistern down the hill to a cistern up the hill so that your house needs wouldn't always require a well pump to kick on.  I liken this to the hydro plants that pump water from below to up the hill in the low demand periods - at least I heard that's what they do.
   

power companies think of elevated reservoirs as large batteries... I don't think this is practical for most folks... I'm trying to make something lots of folks can use.. I'd rather store energy in batteries...

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Since you're into biodiesel your fuel costs should be lower than most but thats no reason not to try and wring every last bit of benefit out of it as you are trying to do - so you're to be commended for that.

I'm not into biodiesel... I like Veggie oil... unlike biodiesel you don't have to make veggieoil... just filter and pour in the tank... but you do need to convert the engine...

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About the only source of large scale inverters I can think of would be from a commercial computer room UPS.  Some of them are very large and would almost certainly give you enough juice to do whatever you wanted.  The problem is getting one for cheap.  Unless someone is decommissioning one and wants to get rid of it (and the batteries too!) then you're looking at a big cash outlay.

Well I'm not into making a one of a kind system... I'd like to make something for the masses..

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I'll be interested to hear how you wind up doing this.

I'll be sure to keep posting my progress...

duh

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2007, 04:19:47 PM »
Hi rcavictim,
You and I are on the same page... Check out my site at www.prontopower.com... you'll notice  I'm all about variable speed generators... or should I say constant speed generators with variable speed engines.. While the concept is simple it's not that easy to make a reliable variable speed generator... I currently use a variable displacement hydraulic pump driving a hydraulic motor on the generator... to make a hydraulic CVT... but it's noisy and costly... I would like to use a CVT but I'm not aware of a good one other than the Comet...

http://www.hoffcocomet.com/comet/oem-torque-converters.asp

Subaru Justy's used a CVT that could be placed between the engine and gen set to allow variable speed operation...

Here's a link to CVT for folks who don't know about them

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/cvt.htm 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission

Hi fattywagonman,

Interesting thread. I have dealt with the Comet setup extensively, in fact it was my final choice when creating my version of a diesel motorcycle:
http://www.diesel-bike.com/Diesel_Bike/Suzuki.html (Some Comet clutch shots there at the bottom).
After heavy modifications to the Comet and a yield of 115mpg average I had to consider this setup (or a version of) when messing around with the AC side of the Lister-oid. When all was said and done, I ended up choosing an RPM that met my needs and then tweaking for that. The success of that endeavor came from a measly 10 bucks for George's governer upgrade.

I'll be very interested to see if you persue the Comet setup and what you come up with. Sometimes folks like me get tunnel vision and overlook things and a fresh new perspective yields a better approach.

Good luck and drive on!
duh

rcavictim

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2007, 04:27:49 PM »
Fatty,

Why/what does the CHP (California Highway Patrol) do with small generators?  Acronym confusion time again.  ???
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
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-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

duh

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2007, 04:30:44 PM »
Duh,
  do you have a thermostat in or are you sucking all the heat out of the engine to heat the house?  It looks like you don't let anything go to waste up there.

PS: you sure got purdy teeth

Robert

Hi Robert,
This unit was setup to hold a 180-190 water temp, and then that heat was used for home heating. I've tried not too waste too much of the fuel dollar since I have a lot of critics with the utility pole being about 30 feet from the pipe riser on the house.

P.S. Glad you like them chompers! Google 13625 on the net and you'll see how these are a necessity  ;)

Hey Doug,
The Petter is a clone, copy, Petter wannabe, or whatever labels are out there. It's a Metro and is a 12hp single with a 7500 watt gen head on it. I seriously over compensated for my electrical needs when I bought it. The reason it became a back-up unit is the Lister-oid is markedly quieter and uses significantly less fuel. It was in the house (where the Lister-oid is now) for one year and it was very reliable.

duh

ranexs

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2007, 06:08:29 PM »
"Real time motor management as a function of the connected load for lowest fuel consumption."
Inverter generator works like that.
With a belt wariator you could get the same effect.

Doug

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2007, 07:14:41 PM »


Hey Doug,
The Petter is a clone, copy, Petter wannabe, or whatever labels are out there. It's a Metro and is a 12hp single with a 7500 watt gen head on it. I seriously over compensated for my electrical needs when I bought it. The reason it became a back-up unit is the Lister-oid is markedly quieter and uses significantly less fuel. It was in the house (where the Lister-oid is now) for one year and it was very reliable.

duh

But what clone?

I have one too a 102/116 mm. Is yours the same bore stroke or do you have the 110 crank?
I assume its a TBR unit, doe sit have an oil line to the rocker box?.
I want to know everything about your Petter and more pictures would be nice.
Who sold it to you?

Doug

duh

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2007, 09:23:24 PM »
Quote
But what clone?

I have one too a 102/116 mm. Is yours the same bore stroke or do you have the 110 crank?
I assume its a TBR unit, doe sit have an oil line to the rocker box?.
I want to know everything about your Petter and more pictures would be nice.
Who sold it to you?

Doug

Hi Doug,
I bought the unit a friend and I believe it came out of Maine as an eBay special. Below are links to the few photos I took of it at the time:
http://www.diesel-bike.com/Petter_Gen/Petterrun.JPG
http://www.diesel-bike.com/Petter_Gen/Petterbase.JPG
http://www.diesel-bike.com/Petter_Gen/Pettervalves.JPG
These may help you to determine if it's the same as yours. The pics are large, but on the plus side you can really enlarge them for detail....

duh

Doug

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2007, 09:29:58 PM »
So its a Sam Crosbie Metro ?

These pictures are nice but they don't tell much about the unit.
Have you ever taken it apart?
Does it have brass high bond rod bearings?
What was kind of fit and finnish did the engines bearings have?
It doesn't apear to have a lube line to the rockers so how are they lubed?
Can you please take more pictures of the unit from several sides?

Doug

Oh ya what stroke is it?



hotater

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2007, 11:27:36 PM »
Interesting--- I never thought about comparing zip codes before.  What's the rules of this game? 
If it's population density I gotta WIN it!

http://www.brainyzip.com/zipcodes/83/83302.html

According to this, if everybody in my zip code spread out evenly we'd each live in the middle of 2157 acres!
I'm glad most live in town, I'd hate to be that crowded.   ;)
Any body else live in a place where people outnumber trees?



7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

Doug

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2007, 01:45:53 AM »
Doesn't work for me but I bet I could give you a run for your money on the rocks and trees front....

Doug

fattywagonman

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2007, 02:34:01 AM »
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Fatty,

Why/what does the CHP (California Highway Patrol) do with small generators?  Acronym confusion time again.

Here's some links

http://uschpa.admgt.com/

http://www.aceee.org/pubs/ie983.htm

www.epa.gov/chp/

www.chpa.co.uk/

rmchambers

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2007, 03:57:04 AM »
Interesting--- I never thought about comparing zip codes before.  What's the rules of this game? 
If it's population density I gotta WIN it!

http://www.brainyzip.com/zipcodes/83/83302.html

According to this, if everybody in my zip code spread out evenly we'd each live in the middle of 2157 acres!
I'm glad most live in town, I'd hate to be that crowded.   ;)
Any body else live in a place where people outnumber trees?


17778 people in 7372 houses parked on     6.6 square miles of dirt.  I'd say I got ya beat as far as human density goes Hotater!

Robert

rcavictim

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2007, 04:31:08 AM »
Quote
Fatty,

Why/what does the CHP (California Highway Patrol) do with small generators?  Acronym confusion time again.

Here's some links

http://uschpa.admgt.com/

http://www.aceee.org/pubs/ie983.htm

www.epa.gov/chp/

www.chpa.co.uk/

Thanx.  Well at least they didn`t rip off a good entrenched acronym like the heating industry did with previously established HVAC.  High Voltage Alternating Current.  To them I say might as well be consistent and also dishonor the related technical acronym HVDC.  How about some Heating, Ventillating and Duct Cleaning boys!   ;D
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

fattywagonman

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Re: Ideal RPM
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2007, 01:19:30 PM »
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-building 20-30 kW wind turbine from scratch

Hi rcavictim

Any pics of this or your VW powered CHP gen set up?