EPA ANSWERS

[okiezeke]

Dont EVEN want to think about what will happen to Pakistan's nukes when current leader dies/and/or killed by militants.  Here you are, Osama, with our compliments !
Zeke

[Stan]

Your right, he's only in there still because he has the support of the army.  I think he's had a couple of assassination attempts tried on him already.
Stan

[Doug]

I think historians will say that atomic weapons and in particular the thermo nuclear kind made real global shooting wars so frightening that peace was forced upon us. As their proliferation spread global powers were forced to abandon gun boat diplomacy. And one day negotiated world peace broke out.

Or

One day world peace will brake out and the roaches will get their chance at the brass ring.

[phaedrus]

OK....what's this got to do with the EPA?  But I'll bite into the off-topic too...  If humanity is going to be global and follow a technical growth path then fission explosives become do-able by individuals. (Fusion explosives are much more difficult to make and also quite unnecessary) Argue if you want, but you might want to read Ted Taylor and Richard Rhodes first, the simple fact is that fission explosives are within the capability of individuals. Nifty ordinance-grade stuff obviously is not, but workable truck-portable stuff is. What we are left with then is a situation where global dominance by capitalist exploitation irritates a large enough set of people that an occasional "terrorist" fission explosion is to be expected. The obvious tactic for the targets is to eliminate all privacy. It's not perfect, but it will minimize the number of explosions. Those that do occur will further empower the exploitative class in their drive to eliminate privacy and "identify would-be terrorists". Nuclear explosives have not and won't end war, they have changed it back to the basic form.

[okiezeke]

Phaedrus,
Point well taken.  It's past time for people to think about how to live in this new world.  What will we have to be able to do for ourselves when NYC or DC goes up in smoke.  How long before disruption of transportation, power system, banking, basic government services, etc. are likely to return to normal.  How much food, fuel, ammunition, water, tiolet paper (for money), clothing, etc etc is enough to survive the disruption.  Will there be armed gangs of pillagers roaming the countryside?  Totally different set of problems for those in citys, towns, and rural areas.  One thing
is sure.  It will happen.  And there is plenty we can do now to increase our chances of survival.
The first to die will be those who figured "it could never happen to us", and made no preparations.  In reality a modest supply of food, water, clothing, ammunition, etc. would probably cost far less than a week in Cancun, and the payoff could be a chance for survival.
Bin Laden and his buddies are real.  They really want to kill us.  They will try again, and again.
Peace and Love,
Zeke

[mactoollover2005]

Hi Guys
 I know this is a little off topic but it also follows along a little bit too,lol. One would think there is lots of fuel for everyone here in ontario canada, but with the fire at the esso fuel refinery production for gas wasdown by 30% and diesel was down 70% if i remember right. doesnt sound like much with all the stations around and different companies selling gas. well lets be realistic, that sudden loss of fuel as small as it was has sent a panic thru our society here in ont. people running around getting extra gas for just in case,( not a bad idea just lousy timing) the price of fuel jumping atleast 10 cents per liter, gas stations having to close completely because of empty fuel tanks for days on end if not longer    shell ,petro canada, husky,and a few of the other major companies all experienced some station closures due to excessive sales and their inability to react any faster for fuel resupply than they were used to all because of esso,s little loss of fuel production for a short time.
Now imagine if terrorrists actually did something to cut off lets say maybe 50% of all fuel produced life as we know it would radically change for a lot of people for a long time. Emergency services would get first dibbs on the fuel then trucking industry and the railway then maybe we would get a chance to buy  maybe 25 liters at a time for $3.00-$4.00 a liter. does it sound outrageouse? Just something to think over

[captfred]

A few years back the island of Guam took a direct hit by typhoon pongsona with winds up to 150 mph (or something like that).  During the storm the island fuel storage facility caught fire; diesel, gas, jetfuel etc.  People here on saipan and guam are well prepared for typhoons, but also expect to be able to buy gas for their cars to purchase ice, water, food and fuel for their generators to power their homes.  Needless to say, that expectation was not met; fortunately the people of guam received prompt assistance from fema, the military and their neighbors to the north. (saipan).

You, me, we, can't depend on normal infrastructure to be available after an event (natural or man-made).  Like Okiezeke said, spend some cash you would have used to go to Cancun (or in my case Phuket)  and stash a reasonable amount of food, fuel, ammo, books.  Oh yeah, don't forget the "meds" and first aide stuff.

I just hope i've got my listeroid up and running with  a stash of wvo and diesel put up before the next major "phoon" comes thru the island; or something worse happens.

[rcavictim]

The little glitch Ontario is now experiencing in it`s fuel supply because of a refinery fire and a strike by a national rail company should be a real shot over the bow wakeup call and for a few who are not toally f*****g asleep it will be, but most Ontaroids will quickly forget this brief discomfort and go on with their well programmed lives consuming beer and cablevision, giving most of their away from work attention to hockey or football and similar totally useless minutia.

This little episode clearly shows that our society is totally unprepared for the smallest terrorist or nature based  attack on infrastructure or basic necessary services.  Those idiots we entrust to spend our collected taxes wisely have pissed it away on the wrong priorities.  We need a lot more preparedness thinking at the top. Heed the Boyscout`s motto.  Be prepared!

[rmchambers]

I'm feeling a lot more this way after reading that Lights Out book that was mentioned on this site a month or two ago.  I've referred a couple of friends to it as well.  Granted we may not be hit with an EMP, but a grid failure like the East Coast of the USA experienced 3 years ago - if it lasted longer than it did things would get exceedingly ugly.

Various companies and individuals will say "It's ok, we have a generator"  but with a limited fuel store, or a run-till-it-blows-up type gasoline generator it won't be long before these "prepared" folk are in the same boat as the masses.

Robert

[mactoollover2005]

Most ontarions have figured out that our provincial government hasnt done a thing and will never do anything to rock the boat if it means that big business will have to toe the provincial line. God forbid if the hydro companies upgrade their systems so we dont have blackouts because of some other power company in another province or country shuts down or have gas stations running out of fuel because one company reduces production.
But if you have a windmill that people find it blocks a viewor solar panels that reflect a little light at their house well then its hammer time and shut these bigtime offenders down and force them to remove the offensive items,after they are fined thousands of $$ sheesh, its screw the little people and let big companies that can grease the politicians sticky palms with green grease society. what happened to honest, trustworthy,keep their word people and politicians. o ya, they got black balled ,fired, framed,etc, u get the idea.
Just my little rant of the week knowing that something like this will happen again and our goverment will listen to the people bitching and promise to fix the problem  ,,,,until people put their heads back in the ground, whitch is about 30 minutes after the problem is over then its back to not upsetting big companies who donate big $ to their election coffers.

[okiezeke]

Survivalists,

There are two general ways to look at this problem.  The easiest, and probably most realistic, is to be able to hold on to a reasonable standard of living for a week or month until things level out.  This is within the means of all of us, at reasonable expense. 

The more radical view would be a disaster on such a scale that it might be a year or more to recover(as in the Postman movie).  This would be a lot harder to prepare for.   Just a thought though,  If you were going to stash a few things for a major mess,  what would it be?  Hard liquor, ammunition, and toilet paper.  These are things that will store forever, and always be in demand.  You could barter them for anything you might need.  And if you didnt need them, just think of the party you could have.
Zeke

[mobile_bob]

very high on the list of things to put away and keeps forever for a very modest price
Bleach, clorox

one of the things that becomes a severe problem in short order is water that is fit to drink.
new orleans was drowning in water,, but none of it was fit to drink.

as far as barter,,

cigarettes,, smokers will kill for a cig,,, especially in times of high stress.

it is widely said that basically in a severe calamity, you need to provide for 30 days,,
this is the time you want to be able to hunker down and not show your face,,
those that are unprepared will expire without food and water within this timeframe.

i am not a doomboomer,, but i look at being prepared as only so much insurance
we insure our cars, homes, health etc... why not insurance against thirst and hunger?

bob g

[draganof]

Interesting topic, if you dropped an air tight shell over my house the wife and I could last 6-9 months without coming out. But then the lack of oxygen would kill me unless the wife decided she had enough of me. Then it would only be a matter of weeks, or days. On the serious side though after 23 yrs in the military and surviving a few military conflicts and seeing other people totally loose it during emergencies here at home it is an easy choice to be prepared. It doesn't take a lot of effort or money to purchase a few extra items and put them away for when TSHTF. You will be surprised how much you have after a couple of years.

[rmchambers]

I hadn't thought about the bartering aspects at all.  Having a few cartons of cigarettes (even though I don't smoke) would not be a bad idea would it.  They keep pretty well, I spose you could put them in the freezer and when the nicotine cravers have something you need you've got something better than money to barter with.  I have a pretty well stocked bar so I think we could either barter for a bit or have a hell of a party.

In my neighborhood I would have to figure out who knows what or who has what skill.  One of my buddies was a gun dealer and would be a go-to guy for protection when TSHTF.  I have to get my carry permit sorted out ahead of armageddon I suppose and make a little stash.

Bleach is a commodity that lasts forever, I wonder if you can get the active ingredient without the water added to it?  Having a decent first aid kit is a must, I can't imagine what kind of a zoo the hospitals would be like when people start looting and pillaging and finding out the hard way who has firearms and are willing to protect their stuff.

99% of the population is happy to live with their heads in the sand.. those folk are in for a rude awakening.

RC

[captfred]

Our municipal water supply is atrocious, unpottable due to seawater intrusion of the island aquafur.  We built a 15,000 gal cistern storage system into our foundation and collect rainwater.  For purification we filter for particulates then process thru a u.v. reactor that kills any pathogens - including cysts like chryptospirodium that bleach does not kill.

The system works very well ( I test my water for pathogens every other month) and is a great alternative to distillation (high energy costs) and chemical (did I put in 6 drops or only 5?) .