Author Topic: 60 hz cycle  (Read 13138 times)

GeckoPower

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60 hz cycle
« on: January 03, 2007, 05:43:47 AM »
I have a 5 kw ST head 6/1 GTC  engine.  I am running 240 volts from alternator.  I have one P3 kill a watt meter in series on each leg of output.  My voltage is at the high end 125v- 126v no load and about 56.7, 58.1, at times going down to 55.? at times of high load. Normal load, right now on one leg is 115.3 volts, 0.66 amps, 56.7hz.  Is there a problem with the head or is this just normal for the unit?  Slow clocks aren't much fun.  Also, has anybody wired in an ONEAC power conditioner to solve those flickery lights?

Thanks,
Off grid since Sept 1 2005,  1 online GTC 6/1, 5k head;  1 wore out 5 hp 2.6kw Honda (but still starts 1 st pull and will put in a 12 hour day;  1 wore out Honda 1kw when I got it, then I wore it out some more; 2004 Duramax Chev 1 ton; 35 hp New Holland Compact Tractor

rcavictim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2007, 12:51:39 PM »
I have a 5 kw ST head 6/1 GTC  engine.  I am running 240 volts from alternator.  I have one P3 kill a watt meter in series on each leg of output.  My voltage is at the high end 125v- 126v no load and about 56.7, 58.1, at times going down to 55.? at times of high load. Normal load, right now on one leg is 115.3 volts, 0.66 amps, 56.7hz.  Is there a problem with the head or is this just normal for the unit?  Slow clocks aren't much fun.  Also, has anybody wired in an ONEAC power conditioner to solve those flickery lights?

Thanks,

Welcome to the forums!  Frequency has nothing to do with faults or shortcomings in the ST head and everything to do with the shaft speed it is turning at.  This boils down to the engine speed regulation.  Apparently at high loads you either have some severe belt slip or the engine is not maintaining a constant RPM.  This is normal to some degree.  The governors on these engines are not high precision.

Forget trying to run line synchronous clocks when battery powered clocks are so cheap nowadays and AA battery will run one for more than a year.  I recently bought a clock that has a radio receiver and computer in it.  It monitors the 60 KHz WWVB asignal from the atomic clock center of the National Buro (I can`t spell that word if my life depended on it) of Standards in Boulder, CO. and keeps itself set accurate to the top of the second.  Amazing!
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

Jim Mc

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2007, 01:36:12 PM »
The frequency  of the ST head output (or ANY alternator, for that matter) is soley a function of the speed it's driven.  For 60 Hz, you need 1800 rpm.  If the engine governor allows the engine to slow down a bit under a large load, or if your belt slips, you will see frequency decrease.  The numbers you show (as high as 58.1 and as low as 55) are pretty good for a Listeroid, but do indicate you could bump the engine speed up a bit.  But the variation (3.1Hz) is something you'll have to live with.

In other words, everything you describe seems normal, but you could get closer to 60 Hz if you increase your engine speed a little bit.

tim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2007, 02:45:35 PM »
GeckoPower
Go to utterpower George has the govener mod that you can build yourself . It does work. I've changed both of mine.

Tim

ronmar

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2007, 03:14:39 PM »
These non regulated/harmonically excited gensets also wind up linking voltage output to RPM to a certain extent.  If everything is right, the frequency will be 60-61HZ with a voltage a little on the high side of normal(125/250) with no load.  If your voltage is excessive when you get the engine RPM up to the point of providing 61HZ,  You may have to alter the freq/volt/RPM relationship by putting a resistor in line in the field circuit to limit the field current to lower the voltage being produced on the stator windings to an acceptable level.  If setup on the high side with no load(61HZ/125VAC), the genset should droop into the correct area (60HZ/120VAC) as load is applied and should still be at an acceptable level at full load(58HZ/115VAC).

Georges site has some excellent info on modifying the field current to tune the genset for proper output.

Ron
PS 6/1 - ST-5.

GeckoPower

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2007, 04:42:57 AM »
Thanks to all who have replied,

I just turned up my electrical world by 2 Hz.  My voltages are about 125 - 133v.  I hope this doesn't damage stuff.  I have faith and warranty so all is well.  I have read the Utter Power web site and have done the governer mod.  The resistor in the field winding may be a little over my head, but I got this far, so it shouldn't be that bad.  Anybody know a source for the resistor?  Also, I have twin 8 rib serpentine drive belts so there shouldn't be much slip. 
Off grid since Sept 1 2005,  1 online GTC 6/1, 5k head;  1 wore out 5 hp 2.6kw Honda (but still starts 1 st pull and will put in a 12 hour day;  1 wore out Honda 1kw when I got it, then I wore it out some more; 2004 Duramax Chev 1 ton; 35 hp New Holland Compact Tractor

rcavictim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2007, 07:20:34 AM »
Thanks to all who have replied,

I just turned up my electrical world by 2 Hz.  My voltages are about 125 - 133v.  I hope this doesn't damage stuff.  I have faith and warranty so all is well.  I have read the Utter Power web site and have done the governer mod.  The resistor in the field winding may be a little over my head, but I got this far, so it shouldn't be that bad.  Anybody know a source for the resistor?  Also, I have twin 8 rib serpentine drive belts so there shouldn't be much slip. 

Geck,

Do you have the resistance rating in ohms of the required resistor and also the wattage rating?

-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rmchambers

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 12:50:39 PM »
Wasn't putting a variable resistor a better suggestion as it allows the operator to tweak the power going to the coil in order to fine tune the output power without the need for a major surgery?  What would be the range?  somewhere encompassing the discrete value of the resistor George recommended?

rcavictim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 04:02:37 PM »
Wasn't putting a variable resistor a better suggestion as it allows the operator to tweak the power going to the coil in order to fine tune the output power without the need for a major surgery?  What would be the range?  somewhere encompassing the discrete value of the resistor George recommended?

rm,

You are absolutely correct and you can get ceramic resistors with the resistance wire wound on them with a tap that can be moved and tightened down at the desired setting with a screw.  First you have to know the discrete value of resistance George suggested, which was my question still  awaiting an answer.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

adhall

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 05:31:13 PM »
50 Ohms / 50 Watt is what is shown on the website.

Here's the link:

http://www.utterpower.com/vreg.htm

If you are the sort of person (like me) who enjoys adjusting things all the time, you may want to consider something like this:

[url]http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Ohmite/Web%20photos/RJS%20SERIES.jpg[url]

Best regards,
Andy Hall
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 07:10:29 PM by adhall »
JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor

rcavictim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 06:02:16 PM »
5 watts is easy and you can actually get wire wound  ceramic potentiometers from Ohmite that will handle that and give the ease of a control knob like a volume control to set things.
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

adhall

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 07:15:42 PM »
OOPS--I made a typo--That's 50 Watts (please note I corrected my original post).

This is a fairly large device and a relatively low resistance value, too.

Best regards,
Andy Hall

JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor

rcavictim

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 07:34:23 PM »
OOPS--I made a typo--That's 50 Watts (please note I corrected my original post).

This is a fairly large device and a relatively low resistance value, too.

Best regards,
Andy Hall



No problemo.  The ohmite series of pots is available in such a wattage and R rating. Hmmmm is that resistor R-rated?  ;D That would likely be one of dem 4 inch diameter jobs.  Prolly only cost about $250.00 wholesale.  A bargoon!  I used one of those as a controller for the electric trailer brakes in my Chevy van one summer.

The unreasonably high cost of hardware and components now resembles a drug induced nightmare.  I think the `executives` that set the prices on this stuff must be on halucinogenic drugs and need the high revenues to support their drug habits.  I have no other explanation that makes any sense.   :'(  The only way a DIY`er like me can afford to make stuff is to find the major parts at the dump or scrapyards and surplus sales.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2007, 07:39:24 PM by rcavictim »
-DIY 1.5L NA VW diesel genset - 9 kW 3-phase. Co-gen, dual  fuel
- 1966, Petter PJ-1, 5 kW air cooled diesel standby lighting plant
-DIY JD175A, minimum fuel research genset.
-Changfa 1115
-6 HP Launtop air cooled diesel
-Want Lister 6/1
-Large DIY VAWT nearing completion

rmchambers

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2007, 08:05:28 PM »

adhall

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Re: 60 hz cycle
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2007, 08:15:08 PM »
Or you can pick one up from Fair Radio Sales for US$2.25. Take the savings and buy yourself a nice, big, old fashioned, Bakolite (sp?) knob to suit!!

See link below:
http://www.fairradio.com/catalog.php?mode=view&categoryid=4233

Best regards,
Andy "The Cheap Swede" Hall
JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor