Direct drive using a wheel contacting the flywheel

[danalinscott]

I have done a search and found no discussion regarding this subject.
If I missed it please direct me as I don't want to duplicate an existing discussion.

I have seen a pnuematic starter that used an air motore to drive a wheel that was then applied TO the flywheel on a listeroid to turn it over for starting purposes.

Has anyone explored the possibility of using a similar strategy to deliver power FROM the motor to drive accessories such as generators, alternator, AC compressors, etc.

I know this is very dificult to do with high speed motors...but with an engine run at 650 rpm it might not be very difficult.

And the simple automation and RPM control it might allow has some intriguing possibilities.

[mobile_bob]

Dana:

i don't know if i have heard of anyone doing that sort of drive between a listeroid and a genhead, but i suppose it is possible

i do remember seeing a saw mill, with a tire to flywheel drive, to get more tension you just added air to the tire, it seemed to work well

i would suppose a small pneumatic tire could be used to do the same, if the ratio's worked out or could be made to work out.

hmmm interesting, and would eliminate belts,and tensioner

i wonder if a 4inch wheel tire, 2 ply pneumatic type could stand up to 1800rpm, and the hp being delivered, if not there are probably 4 ply tires out there somewhere.
i think they are 10" od or so so with 24 inch flywheel you get 2.4* x = 1800, where x =engine rpm.
or x = 1800/2.4 ,,,,    or x =750 rpm or so, that might work for a derated twin or a derated big single

interesting

bob g

[biobill]

  You'd have to use a jack shaft as the tire dia would be smaller than the generator dia. (at least with the ST's) so the undriven end of the head would hit the other flywheel unless you moved it way out on the crank which probably isn't a good idea. Then what, belt drive the head from the jackshaft? Am I missing something?
  I suppose you could hang the head off out of line with the engine which could be useful in certain tight spaces (a boat bilge comes to mind) but would be really cumbersome in most situations.

                                                          Bill

[MeanListerGreen]

I have seen the starter set up on some other websites.  I am pretty sure they call them friction starters.  I would think using one to drive a gen head would cause the tire to wear quickly, probably more quickly then a belt.  If you want to try it I would suggest using a go cart tire, like a racing one.

[hotater]

 I considered it extensively.  I'm going to use a rubber tire for a starter with starter clutch and pivot system, but unless you want a water pump, saw mill, or other low speed load, I can't see the benifit of a rubber driven wheel.

Quite frankly, the serpentine belt is THE answer for most of what we do with Listeroids.  No slip, no noise, no stretch, no chip, crack, peel or flaking, cheap, readily available, low profile and oil, water, fuel resistant, and don't have flats.    

[danalinscott]

I do not believe a pneumatic tire/wheel combination would be durable or dimensionally stable enough. I have seen them used in applications where rmp stability was not dritical though. I think a solid rim with an elastomeric solid "tire" would be required to drive a generator head...but other accessories might not.

A jackshaft might be a good option and IS pretty simple/cheap technology.  Hmmm.....

I really would like the option of driving up to 4 separate accessories off the engine seperately or in combination.

That should be do-able even using jackshafts for the high RPM ones.
How much do jackshafts cost in power transmission efficiency?

I too like the serpentine belt..but it is very costly to set up the above option using them.
Perhaps it is the most practical for a generator and alternator heads...and they can be set to reduce draw to match Engine RPM pretty easily.

Hmmm....

[phaedrus]

to keep the speeds solid and steady you can't use an inflatable tire, must be solid. The torque transfer from a solid, eg more or less tangent wheel set, is going to be a problem. The configuration would need to be face-to face with offset. With the correct friction material, if it exists, idea might just work.

[danalinscott]

The torque transfer from a solid, eg more or less tangent wheel set, is going to be a problem.

Can you expand on this a bit? What problem(s) are you referring to?