there are a lot of parallels between the discussions going on here and the discussions of people who were going to sell up, build a yacht, and go sailing off into the sunset, in the boat community there used to be a lot of places to buy cheap boats, these places were basically the first sensible stop with access to an airport on the planned itinerary, when the missus came face to face with the reality of liveaboard as opposed to the dream captain bligh had been feeding her, and jumped ship permanently.
nobody tells the truth, even to themselves.
by way of example.
I can generate electricity with my start-o-matic from UK pump diesel for 45 pence per kilowatt hour.
if I use red diesel its 20 pence per kWh
if I use the cheapest fuel available, bunker, its 10 pence per kWh
Mains electricity is 10.5 pence per kWh here, so I can match or beat mains prices.
well, no, cos I can pull zero watts or 25 kilowatts at a flick of the switch off the mains, the start-o-matic will do the flick of a switch and power on demand thing, albeit with a delay of 30 to 45 seconds, but it will be a bitch when the fridge and other stuff cuts in and out overnight, plus there are my phantom loads.
no problemo, say the dreamers, you yourself posted a link to a large battery bank and inverter spec, 2000 UK pounds for the batteries and 500 for the inverter.
then you run the lister periodically to charge the batteries.
well here comes lie #1
2.5 kW start-o-matic running 12 hours a day will output 30 kWh
I can pull 30 kWh in one hour from the mains, I don't have to spread everything evenly over 24 hours, DC equivalents of washing machines etc aren't easy or cheap to come by, so lister + battery bank + inverter is no a like for like comparison with mains fucntionality for a kick off
here comes lie #2
power stations can't start and stop willy nilly, so they struggle to meet demand when everyone wakes up in the morning, whereas an hour before they had wads of excess generating capacity going to waste, rather like the last minute empty seats on a plane.
our battery bank can be charged any time, it is nonsensical to charge it from a lister at 10 pence per kWh excluding my time and energy for maintenance and running, when you can charge it from the aforesaid off peak elecricity (called economy 7 here) for 4.5 pence per kWh
here comes lie #3
economy 7 battery charging, battery bank and inverter, with no lister anywhere in the circuit, will still only deliver 30 kWh per day for your 2500 quid capital investment, CHARGING the system costs 30 x 4.5p = 1.35 pounds assuming 100% efficiency, DISCHARGING the system means yo have to figure amortisation of the capital costs, lats say ten years. which will give you about a quid a day in capital costs. which for 30 kWh and still assuming 100% efficiency is going to add 3.3 pence per kWh produced, so 4.5 + 3.3 = 7.8 TRUE pence per kWh, include actual efficiences and losses and it works out around 9.4 pence per kWh.
so 9.4 pence per kWh as opposed to 10.5 pence per kWh for on demand mains electric in any quantity I like, not such a good deal
here comes lie #4
yeah well, when mains electricity goes up, I will be a winner.
this is the basis of the oldest confidence trick on the books, it is for people who literally cannot tell the difference between SPECULATION and INVESTMENT, because it is nothing more than rash speculation dressed up as investment to make it more sellable.
if energy costs go up, then EVERYTHING is going to go up, so your biodiesel or bunker or whatever costs are going to go up too
if energy costs go up then the cost of shipping EVERYTHING goes up, and EVERYTHING gets shipped, not just the 200,000 mile ceasar salad
here comes lie #4
what we are facing is a shortage, like housing in a city, causes prices to rise, there is never no housing available in the city, the supply never runs out, it is just you can't afford the standard you are used to, so EVERY SINGLE PLAN that does not involve you having a radical change in the way you percieve and use energy is a ponzi scheme at best, course this ponzi scheme is easy to sell, cos nobody wants to know about rationing.
you all know what I have been saying about CARBON is the energy source in ALL our fuels, propane, butane, kerosene, avgas, unleaded, 100 octane, all the diesels, they are all CARBON fuel sources, forget hydrogen and shit like that, it stands no chance, not as a fuel, and now we have the CARBON ECONOMY which is political speak for CARBON CONTROL which is CARBON RATIONING which is ENERGY RATIONING which is the only thing you can do unless you want anarchy, riots and the collapse of civilisation.
THEY ARE PREPARING YOU FOR THIS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6167671.stm Carbon 'credit card' considered
Carbon "credit cards" could be issued as part of a nationwide carbon rationing scheme, Environment Secretary David Miliband has suggested.
An annual allowance would be allocated, with the card being swiped on various items such as travel, energy or food.
Mr Miliband said people who used less than their allowance could sell any surplus to those who wanted more.
A feasibility study says many questions remain on such a plan, but Mr Miliband says "bold thinking" is needed.
Mr Miliband told the Guardian that the scheme had "a simplicity and beauty that would reward carbon thrift".
Mr Miliband, who commissioned the feasibility study, said the scheme could be working within five years.
You cannot just rely on the state
David Miliband
Individuals and communities had to be empowered to tackle climate change - "the mass mobilising movement of our age".
"You cannot just rely on the state," he said.
The feasibility study was carried out by the Centre for Sustainable Energy for the Department of the Environment (Defra).
It says there are questions over whether a scheme would be acceptable for politicians and the public, but could be fairer than imposing carbon taxes.
The report seeks to separate a carbon trading scheme from the proposed ID card scheme, to avoid it being attacked on the same civil liberty basis as identity cards.
'Consistent radicalism'
Defra said the government was now developing a work programme "which should provide the information to lead to a decision on whether or not a personal carbon allowance is a realistic and workable policy option".
Mr Miliband predicted the environment would be a key issue in the next election, requiring Labour to "change our policies and our politics in fundamental ways so that we are seen as the change in the next election".
"I'm a great believer in the Arsene Wenger school of management - which is, you don't worry about the opposition, you just get your own act together," he said.
He insisted that climate change required "cumulative, consistent radicalism" rather than "one shot wonders".
Environmental measures in last week's pre-Budget report, including a 1.25p per litre increase in fuel duty and a doubling in air duty, were called "pretty feeble" by green groups.
Environmental group Friends of the Earth said the principle of using a limited "budget" of carbon per person was sound, but the implementation - especially as it would involve a government IT project - was a cause for concern.
Friends of the Earth climate change campaigner Martin Williams said: "What worries us is that it could take quite a long time to implement it and really we don't have that long to tackle climate change."
At a meeting in Downing Street on Monday, the prime minister met business, media and religious leaders to promote "collective action" against climate change.
The Bishop of London and the chief executives of B&Q, BSkyB, the Carphone Warehouse, HSBC UK, Man Investments, Marks & Spencer, O2, Starbucks UK, the director general of the BBC and Tesco formed a partnership to publicise "practical, simple solutions". A public campaign will be launched in March 2007.
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self deceit and ponzi schemes that you buy into cos they sound nicer than the alternatives won't help, they will cost you dearly.
