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Author Topic: The Brand Roundup  (Read 215514 times)

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #90 on: January 15, 2007, 01:44:27 AM »
Craig C
I wish I knew something, but I don't.  OM seemed to have some personal experience, unfortunately he hasn't posted since Nov. of '06.  I just posted this because his post had a lot of interesting info.  I'm nearly as ignorant as everyone else who hasn't visited India, specifically Rajkot.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Rod

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2007, 01:49:54 PM »
     Hello All:
       I dealt directly with Atul Patel at Anand Ent. when I bought my Powerline 16-2. This was very easy, with good communication and it was on board ship in no time at all. Thing was the ship went into the wrong ocean, this was not the fault of Anand. The box was labeled right but the people in Mumbi don't seem to know the dif. between Portland Or. and Portland Maine. It was part my fault, because it should have gone to Boston, the correct port for my area (I don't import so I don't know these things), in any case, I sent an e-mail to Atul and he took care of all problems at no expense to me.
      Overall condition of the unit was very good, I found a very small amount of grit (sand?) in the cam covers & that was all. The lifters were a little rough, I touched them up with a toolpost grinder & then the lapping plate. I did the standard governor mod. to make it into a generator, and then ran it. After a few hours, maybe 5, of on and off running, I had the cooling working good, and the Hz. meter holding within 1 1/2 cycles, maybe 2. Then the power went out, she did a very good job, but with the extened run we found that something wasn't right. Black goo running down one header. (See thread about possible cracked head) I sent Mr. Patel some pictures of the scratch & the carbon line on the head gasket. I now have a   NEW HEAD coming with gaskets, in the mail, his offering, no arguments, no questions, no problems, I am extremely happy with the company, the service, and the product.     My only complaint was the charges that the people in my own country screwed me with, I bet if any one of them farted I ended up paying the laundry bill for his underwear.
         I can't say that you would have the same experience, maybe I just have good karma, but overall I have a good feeling about dealing with Anand and Mr. Atul Patel. I've gone over all the writing in their web-site & the book that came with the engine. Nowhere does it mention warranty, however I seem to have one, they came thru with no legal obligation. I call that a good company!!
                                                                                                                                                 Rod

MeanListerGreen

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2007, 04:56:10 PM »
Good idea on scanning templates.  I have a gasket set but unfortunately no scanner.
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taeuber

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2007, 06:18:49 PM »
I did the standard governor mod. to make it into a generator, and then ran it.

Hallo Rod,

could you post me a link, a page number in Georges PDF or something with the description of the modification you mean?
I own a 12/2 since a week and have it open for cleaning and everything. I don't want to forget to make all things that should have been done.

Thanks
Lars

Doug

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #94 on: January 31, 2007, 09:55:35 PM »
   
         I can't say that you would have the same experience, maybe I just have good karma, but overall I have a good feeling about dealing with Anand and Mr. Atul Patel. I've gone over all the writing in their web-site & the book that came with the engine. Nowhere does it mention warranty, however I seem to have one, they came thru with no legal obligation. I call that a good company!!
                                                                                                                                                 Rod

Atul is a nice open fellow who has offered me parts as well.
Gus pushed the limmits for what I think they were able to produce and I think it cost them more to produce and ship this engine than I paid and he included some extras I never asked for. I've told him I will pay for any parts I need its only fair I think.

Doug

Rod

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #95 on: January 31, 2007, 10:32:46 PM »
   Taeuber:
       To be honest, I cant remember if it was in his web-site or on the CD. It's just a matter of reversing the position of the adjusting hook for the spring. First you mount the end of the spring directly to the govenor arm. Then, make up a bracket for the hook shaped adjustment thing. The bracket can mounted on the bolt (stud) that held the spring, but needs to be designed in such a way that you can use a longer spring WITHOUT any interferance. That should do it.
       With the hook on the governor arm, it swings in an arch which, as I understand it is part of the problem. By moving it to a fixed point, you remove that problem. Then all you need is the right spring. George sells a kit, you can find it in his web-sight. I just like making my own stuff, for me that's a big part of the fun.
    Good Luck
       Rod

Rod

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #96 on: January 31, 2007, 11:09:02 PM »
     Doug:
        Anand had an order of something going to a diesel shop in Bangor, so they just added my parts to it. It is up to me to get the parts home, but still and all I couldn't be happier. With all the bad mouthing about the Indians I hear I felt the need to give credit where cerdit is due.
         Did you ever read the Ramayana, very good book - even without anything about Lister engines!!
                    Rod
                                           

Doug

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #97 on: January 31, 2007, 11:37:16 PM »
No can't say I ever read it....

I sat threw a play called the Mahahbaratta, probly not spelled right, but that's where Oppehiemer's the quote " I am become death the destroyer of worlds" came from. I believe I sat for 14 hours over two days.

Again no Lister diesels, but lots of guys with extra arms, weapons of mass distruction, good guys and evil. And it left me with some new persectives on war and the price to be paid for peace.

Doug

Rod

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #98 on: February 01, 2007, 01:52:35 PM »
      Doug:
    I've got that one too, the Mahabharata is the most holy book of the Hindu, A very interesting point, that I can't see how a play could show is that the war ends with an atomic blast. I states that an iron tiped arrow (in what we call the bronze age) explodes with the light of 10,000 suns, elephants 10 miles from the point of impact were blown off their feet and burst into flames & the explosion made a cloud in the shape of a parasol. This war is supposed to have ended the last "time of man" more or less 10,000 years ago. There was a building project in India that had to be terminated because of contaminated soil in the same basic area as the war.
       I find it most curious that Oppehiemer borrowed from this book!!

Doug

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2007, 08:22:34 PM »
I'm an Athiest....

Edited for fear of starting a holy war....

We need more multy armed blue guys and nuclear powered arrows.

Doug
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 08:34:32 PM by Doug »

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2007, 12:37:21 AM »
Here is a interesting and useful quote from a thread started by Listerdiesel.  Placed here to prevent it from disappearing into the mire.



I've been reading most of the posts on the Indian engines, and have had some contacts over the years with Tom Mackay in Perth, Australia who imported the Metex engines for some years.

It seems to me that the expectations raised by the advertising of these engines are not realised when they eventually turn up. This is due to a variety of reasons, mostly poor quality machining, lack of inspection of finished parts and engines and just generally poor adaptation of what was originally a good and reliable design.

What seems to have happened, looking at the postings here, is that people are buying the engines based on a pretty hyped up advertising blurb and then when they receive their engine they feel let down

Costs of getting a genuine Lister or Petter engine are high, not so much on the actual purchasing, but on shipping and handling. It seems that it is easier and cheaper to buy a new Indian clone than it is to buy a secondhand Lister or Petter and ship it out from the UK. I picked up a couple of radiator cooled 6/1 Listers recently for £60 each, 'poorly handled' condition but complete down to radiators, air filters etc etc. That is how cheap they 'can' be, albeit internal condition unknown.

The Indian clones are part of a cottage industry almost, one that has many people all working to fulfil a small but interested market. It will never get to major figures in production terms as they simply don't have the machinery or technology to produce such stuff. People making parts in the street in India is quite a common sight. I was there in Delhi in 1980/81 for 13 weeks, and the crudeness of some of the manufacturing had to be seen to be believed, but they are all scratching a living, not riding round in big V8 pickups.

Dirt floors are the norm in most factories, machinery has been restricted by successive governments wanting to avoid importing costs and hard currency trade, so almost anything is picked up and kept going.

The secondhand machine tool trade from the UK to India and Pakistan is running at very high levels at present, anything from 1940's to 1960's machinery is bing bought and containerised out to these countries to go into their manufacturing industries. Most of this stuff is pretty clapped out when it leaves here, so you can imagine how it is when they get to use it. Similar trading goes on through Europe.

But, imagine receiving your first capstan lathe.....  making studs and suchlike on a machine rather than in a vice with a hacksaw and dies. Or your first milling machine, no more filing!  One of the places I was working with in delhi, made window frames. Two kids sat in the gutter outside with a big block of steel, a chisel and a BIG hammer. All they did all day long was to cut up lengths of steel strip for the frames. There was one drilling machine in the place and one welder. 20 or more people worked there, labour is cheap, machinery and the electricity to power them is expensive.

Most of these places will never compete in an open market with a serious engine maker. They have a small niche market and it will never get any better than that. The engines are in a kind of 1940's 'second universe' where they will not do anything to improve the mechanics of the things but occasionally they will increase bore and stroke sizes to uprate the power etc.

It would be nice to think that these guys would have a future in this business, but longer-term they will fall by the wayside as the requirements of modern-day practices will see that they cannot afford all the health & safety and other costs/requirements that have killed off most of the manufacturing in western countries. Unfortunately there are no more 'low-labour cost' countries left after China and India.

China will probably jump this stage completely, they know where they are going with technology and will not get into this closed loop, other than a few small outfits who will operate like the Indians have.

Kirloskar started all this in the 1950's, and here we are 50 years on with essentially the same products. 'Nuff said.

Peter
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

LowGear

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #101 on: March 15, 2007, 05:48:01 AM »
Do any manufactures utilize solid flywheels rather than the spoked ones I see everywhere?  Why?
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rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #102 on: March 16, 2007, 08:34:30 PM »
Lowgear,

The soild flywheels are available, and generally used for the higher speed engines (800 - 1000 rpm).  The spoked ones are only rated for 650 rpm.  One could (it seems) order solid flywheels for any engine though.  They are generally heavier, and would therefore, cost more than the spoked ones.  They are also often smaller in diameter, to reduce the forces involved at higher rpms.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Stan

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2007, 01:39:09 AM »
The SOM style flywheels, though not exactly solid (2 oval holes and 1 smaller round hole) are very heavy.  Penelope's are a full 25" in diameter with a 4" deep and 3.5" wide rim and the center is 1" thick.  I have decided not to take them off as the main bearings "sound" very quiet and there appears to be no play up and down or sideways.  That said, I don't know if I lifted the 240 lb flywheels up and down adequately to see if there was any play  : ???  They do sound very quiet with a stethoscope though.
Stan

LowGear

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2007, 06:52:40 AM »
The holes or spokes spinning around seem to be an added unnecessary risk.  While I love the tradition of these funky old farts I can also see a wrench or screwdriver hurling out into the unknown after being kissed by one of these non functional extra effort to incorporate artistic touches.

LG
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