Author Topic: The Brand Roundup  (Read 183550 times)

adhall

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #105 on: March 17, 2007, 05:58:16 PM »
LowGear:

To answer your question about solid vs. spoked flywheels:
Spoked flywheels do have an advantage over disk flywheels in that you get more "flywheel effect" for a given flywheel weight. This is because a spoked flywheel has proportionately more of it's material in the rim of the flywheel where it makes the biggest contribution to the flywheel's inertia.

I suspect that there may be another advantage to a spoked flywheel regarding the ease of producing the casting, but I can't say for sure on that point.

In other words, the spokes are just there for looks. ;)

Best regards,
Andy Hall

JKSon 6/1, 5 kW ST Head, 1992 Dodge RAM Cummins 5.9L Turbodiesel, 2001 VW TDI 1.9L Turbodiesel, 2006 Jeep CRD Turbodiesel, Yanmar FX22D Diesel Tractor

max.network23

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #106 on: May 18, 2007, 03:22:05 PM »
Andy wrote:
>I suspect that there may be another advantage to a spoked flywheel regarding the ease of producing
>the casting, but I can't say for sure on that point.

Another that I can think of is -> Less material means less cost.

-John
Listeroid Wannabe

phaedrus

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2007, 04:15:29 PM »
Back in the 1970's I spent about 18 months working in various capacities in iron foundries. Essentially I learned a bit about each specialty and contributed some useful work. Built some physical strength too!

Anyway, regarding casting wheels, the  web or spokes tend to cool faster than the more massive rim and hub. As the iron cools and becomes solid it shrinks. Shrinks quite a bit, maybe 1/4 inch per foot (something like that). The solid "front" , which is more or less conical, moves toward the more massive areas, if things are done right, and the still liquid material "feeds" into the front. This means that the hub and also the rim areas have to also be fed liquid iron. This, in turn, means "risers" - large openings in the cope, or upper part of the "flask" - the mould itself. These risers represent a cost, as they too solidify and can't be sold - they have to be re-introduced in the material flow through the process, eg thrown in the scrap pile. This is a fuel cost. They also have to be removed and the "gate", the area where they connected to the casting, has to be ground clean - a labor cost. Foundrymen try to minimize the number and size of risers for these reasons.

With a bit of visualization you can "see" how spokes are easier to cast that a thin web.

In an effort to spread out thermal stress that occurs after the phase change to solid, spokes are sometimes designed as curves.

This, however, is generally unnecessary if castings are allowed to cool slowly and season. We used to season castings - leave 'em outside in the weather, for a year. Yes, a year. The iron, which is really an alloy of carbon and iron, takes time to get used to being in a shape, so to speak.

I have looked at castings ever since those days, always with an eye to how they were made. Excepting the crankshaft itself (which I know nothing about making), there does not seem to be anything about a 6-1 that any decent local iron foundry in any American town of, say, 1930, couldn't make. We made an air compressor that was driven by an impulse turbine (which we also made) through a leather belt - the compressor was a twin and stood about 4 feet tall. It's there today (I think) - 13 Eureka Street, Sutter Creek CA
if ya don't ask permission they can't deny it...

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2007, 06:34:25 PM »
phadrus -
Thanks for the interesting post.  I assume you are talking about the Knight Foundry in Sutter Creek?  I don't know much about it (though I have visited the buildings).  There is a bit of it's history here (now outdated) http://crm.cr.nps.gov/archive/17-8/17-8-11.pdf

The Knight Foundry Corporation (http://www.knightfoundry.org/) recently reached an agreement with the City of Sutter Creek to buy the site.  The only reason I mention all this is that ~15 years ago, I happened to meet a guy at a party at a relative of a friend's house who had just bought the foundry.  I don't even remember the guys name, but he said that the pattern shop walls were covered with so many wooden casting patterns, that it seemed impossible to assess them all.  What they did was bring in some sort of video recorder (this is entirely a guess on my part, I've forgotten the details).  They had a laser set up in the middle of the building - the laser turned, the surface of all the walls was recorded in digital form, and the record of all the patterns was then assessed by computer to describe all the casting patterns hanging on the wall.

The other story he told was about the cupola furnace.  Apparently it was in great need of repair, but there was no funding.  Fortunetly, a semi truck happened down the street and happened to catch one of the guy wires steadying the cupola and chimney above the roof.  The damage caused by the truck was covered by insurance, allowing the cupola to be rebuilt.

I realize this doesn't have much to do with Listeroids, but it seems the foundry "could" make Listeroids, though it seems unlikely anytime soon.  Apparently, it is still the only water powered foundry in the US.  Lots of other cast parts for steam engines, locomotives, old cars, etc. have been made there in the recent past, and could be again.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

phaedrus

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2007, 07:23:04 PM »
I would have said "Knight Turbine", but I thought nobody'd know of the place. Yep, I know that cupola, the big one, we never used the little one when I was there. I have re-lined that damn thing with gunmix so many times, leaving my blood in the surface. A tough job.

Wendel B was the coremaker. Henry,. who was over 100 years old was the pattern maker. Dave was gone....

It's interesting what's happened there. Last time I visited Carl owned it and it was still a going business.

I love the recollections, and don't really want to change 'em - so I've stayed away. I don't want to see it the way it must be.

When I left I joined the Steelworkers and saw Fontana go under - after that a bit at a modern foundry in LA. Then I changed fields...
if ya don't ask permission they can't deny it...

rmchambers

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #110 on: May 19, 2007, 12:17:26 AM »
I hate the idea of this kind of know-how going away.  The simple old ways of doing stuff aren't always improved upon by high technology.  I'm glad some of these places are preserved before the knowledge dies with the last guy doing the work.

Stan

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #111 on: May 19, 2007, 06:26:44 PM »
Here's a biggy.  It's located in Juneau Alaska and it's got to be approx. 12+feet in diameter (measured by pacing).
Stan

« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 09:50:45 PM by Stan »

sanchez

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what about the ATUL engines?
« Reply #112 on: May 31, 2007, 03:36:35 PM »
I have an offer of basant industries, the price is low, but I am not sure if decide by they, some one know the engines, what about the quality and any other comment.

Thanks guys.

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #113 on: June 07, 2007, 04:35:56 PM »
sanchez,
I can't offer any guidance specific to Basant Industries, however, based on lots of comments, you get what you pay for.  Most of these engines are all made by the same people, you are just dealing with a different marketer.  With some exceptions, few companies offer support if you find problems after receiving the engine.  That said, best of luck!
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

joe wvo

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #114 on: June 07, 2007, 07:34:40 PM »
rpg,

You say that most of these engines are made by the same company....., do you know that for a fact or is it an assumption?  If you do know it as a fact, which company is doing the manufacturing?

Thanks

Joe wvoi

sanchez,
I can't offer any guidance specific to Basant Industries, however, based on lots of comments, you get what you pay for.  Most of these engines are all made by the same people, you are just dealing with a different marketer.  With some exceptions, few companies offer support if you find problems after receiving the engine.  That said, best of luck!
Ray

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2007, 11:43:49 PM »
Joe,
Kind of lost track of this thread for a while, maybe you have too?  Anyway, look on page 6 of this thread near the bottom, and on page 7 near the middle.  I really don't know anything anyone else who hasn't traveled to India knows - but these are pretty interesting first hand observations though.  Seems like listeroid manufacturing is kind of a cottage industry, based around Rajkot.  Many "manufacturers", mostly making the same kinds of products, to varying degrees of "standards".  There does seem to be a few manufacturers that make their own castings, but who they might be, I could only offer an opinion.  All subject to change, depending on unknown variables.  I'm mostly pleased with my Listeroid, others have differing opinions.  Mine happens to be a JKSON, rebranded by George of Utterpower as PS, for what that is worth.  Many of the importers have shied off with the coming EPA regulations.  Mike Montieth has been working hard certifying his particular Listeroid variant, and seems dedicated to continuing.  As always, costs are driving the market, exactly where is yet to be determined.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2007, 11:37:44 PM »
July '07

This is dated info, at least a year old (I'm speaking of the info I gathered).  I haven't been checking websites and updating the list.  This is a loooooong post, included are two earlier posts that talk about Listeroid engines in general and the part of India where they are made.
Ray
PS, had to do these in two separate posts - tooo long.

It seems like it would be useful to included the observations by OM in Nov., '06 about Listeroids.  Unfortunately he hasn't posted any more information lately.  Ray
 
OM:  "I just happened to go through this site today and have spent the last 3 hours reading the comments of various individuals regarding listeroids from India.
I am from India , no , I am not trying to sell any engines or spares , but know the full manufacturing process of these engines as my father ( who expired last year ) used to sell them to various countries in Africa.
I started my career in Nigeria selling these engines and got out of this business as I did not like what I was selling.
Let me tell you how these engines are made:
They are all made in a city called rajkot.
There is no other centre in India which makes these engines , if anyone tells you otherwise they are lying.
No engine manufacturer is a manufacturer of more than two or three parts out of the total parts required to make an engine.
It is a cottage industry , where each part ( leaving out a few critical parts ) is made by small manufacturers who supply them to the so called engine manufacturer.
The manufacturer will then hire people on daily wages basis to assemble the engines.
After the engine is assembled it is put on the test line to see that it is working properly.
Immediately after the test is over it is packed in wooden cases , this is the reason why you will always get oil in the crankcase which makes you feel that you are buying a used engine.
As far as casting pieces are concerned this problem will never go ( believe me I have tried ) as the manufacturer never bothers to machine them out and the exporter of these engines sitting in Bombay ( now Mumbai ) never sees what is being packed and exported.
You can get these engines made in any name as all you have to do is put the name on the crankcase cover ( which does not cost much ) and get plates printed in your name (minimum qty. of plates can be as low as 100pcs and again the cost is not much ).
Parts catalogues and instruction manuals can also be printed in your name , as there is only one printer who supplies everybody , all you have to do is to change the cover page and put your brand name.
The reason why I am letting everybody know all this is as follows :
Quality : you only get what you pay for ( pay peanuts and get monkeys )
Problems : have been , will be and will never go away as the people of this town do not understand what quality means , the few who do are not interested in exporting as their engines sell at better prices in India.
I hope I have put some light on this matter and it is of help to everybody and may help reduce their frustration regarding these engines from India.
I would also like to add that quality products are being exported from India and please do not judge the country by one product.
Once again believe me this not a sales pitch , but is being done without any malice towards anyone."

In India the listeroids are used primarily for drawing water.
The petteroids are used for drawing water , generators and in rural areas as an engine in a locally fabricated vehicle.
The parts made by good manufacturers are :
Fuel injection system by mico or motorpal
Pistons and piston rings by goetze , usha , india pistons or perfect circle ( but most manufacturers use locally made ones )
Crankshafts should be in en9 grade steel but most manufacturers use mild steel
Please let me know if you need names of manufacturers for any other parts.
I hope this is of help.
Regards
OM


Here is a interesting and useful quote from a thread started by Listerdiesel.  Placed here to prevent it from disappearing into the mire.

I've been reading most of the posts on the Indian engines, and have had some contacts over the years with Tom Mackay in Perth, Australia who imported the Metex engines for some years.

It seems to me that the expectations raised by the advertising of these engines are not realised when they eventually turn up. This is due to a variety of reasons, mostly poor quality machining, lack of inspection of finished parts and engines and just generally poor adaptation of what was originally a good and reliable design.

What seems to have happened, looking at the postings here, is that people are buying the engines based on a pretty hyped up advertising blurb and then when they receive their engine they feel let down

Costs of getting a genuine Lister or Petter engine are high, not so much on the actual purchasing, but on shipping and handling. It seems that it is easier and cheaper to buy a new Indian clone than it is to buy a secondhand Lister or Petter and ship it out from the UK. I picked up a couple of radiator cooled 6/1 Listers recently for £60 each, 'poorly handled' condition but complete down to radiators, air filters etc etc. That is how cheap they 'can' be, albeit internal condition unknown.

The Indian clones are part of a cottage industry almost, one that has many people all working to fulfil a small but interested market. It will never get to major figures in production terms as they simply don't have the machinery or technology to produce such stuff. People making parts in the street in India is quite a common sight. I was there in Delhi in 1980/81 for 13 weeks, and the crudeness of some of the manufacturing had to be seen to be believed, but they are all scratching a living, not riding round in big V8 pickups.

Dirt floors are the norm in most factories, machinery has been restricted by successive governments wanting to avoid importing costs and hard currency trade, so almost anything is picked up and kept going.

The secondhand machine tool trade from the UK to India and Pakistan is running at very high levels at present, anything from 1940's to 1960's machinery is bing bought and containerised out to these countries to go into their manufacturing industries. Most of this stuff is pretty clapped out when it leaves here, so you can imagine how it is when they get to use it. Similar trading goes on through Europe.

But, imagine receiving your first capstan lathe.....  making studs and suchlike on a machine rather than in a vice with a hacksaw and dies. Or your first milling machine, no more filing!  One of the places I was working with in delhi, made window frames. Two kids sat in the gutter outside with a big block of steel, a chisel and a BIG hammer. All they did all day long was to cut up lengths of steel strip for the frames. There was one drilling machine in the place and one welder. 20 or more people worked there, labour is cheap, machinery and the electricity to power them is expensive.

Most of these places will never compete in an open market with a serious engine maker. They have a small niche market and it will never get any better than that. The engines are in a kind of 1940's 'second universe' where they will not do anything to improve the mechanics of the things but occasionally they will increase bore and stroke sizes to uprate the power etc.

It would be nice to think that these guys would have a future in this business, but longer-term they will fall by the wayside as the requirements of modern-day practices will see that they cannot afford all the health & safety and other costs/requirements that have killed off most of the manufacturing in western countries. Unfortunately there are no more 'low-labour cost' countries left after China and India.

China will probably jump this stage completely, they know where they are going with technology and will not get into this closed loop, other than a few small outfits who will operate like the Indians have.

Kirloskar started all this in the 1950's, and here we are 50 years on with essentially the same products. 'Nuff said.

Peter

PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

rpg52

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2007, 11:38:28 PM »
July ’06 iteration, includes the Windsor and the “mini-listers” of the Topland group.
I have gone to the various manufacturer’s websites and assembled the following from their information.  Some provide a lot of useful information, one provided a table of numbers with no labels as to what the numbers meant!  None of them talk about sand in the sump.  Some mention balance.  It seems that the bore and stroke imply the degree of standardization between engines, which I thought might be useful.  A few use the same piston and con rod in all their engines, others only vary the piston.  A few change both.  The dimensions of the foundation bolts, which may not be particularly useful in itself, would tend to indicate whether a different casting is used for the base.
 “Standard”:  114.3 piston, 139.7 con rod.  Con rods go from 130 to 177.8.  Other common pistons are 120, 127 and 130.  Materials are mostly iron, few aluminum.  330x330 mm foundation bolt for 1 cyl., 381x559 for 2 cyl., some variation.  5/1, 6/1 and 8/1 are often the same engine, only with an increase in rpm from 600, 650 to 850 (and likely with smaller diameter, heavier flywheels).
Other observations:  14/1 and 16/1 are most often made from odd sized or “non-standard” pistons or con rods.  Oil capacities are not given for many of the engines, but the Kirloskar capacities are about half that of other manufacturer’s for the 6/1 & 8/1.  The Hindustan Trading Co. “Mini-Listers” appear to be a considerably different design than that offered by others, (also offered by Topland).  The piston sizes are “standard” but the con rod and foundation bolt patterns are different than any other engines.  Direct Injection implies a different head design than “standard”, and may have an aluminum piston. 

Ammerajkot          http://www.ameerrajkot.com
H.P./Cyl.             5/1   6/1       8/1    10/1      12/1   14/1   14/1
Bore in MM          114.3      114.3   120    127   139.7 130
Stroke in MM          139.7      139.7   139.7   139.7   152.4 147
Speed RPM          600 650       850   1000       650 1000
Compression Ratio          1:18      
Lub. Oil Capacity (Lit.)       4.5               5.0
Foundation Bolt Spacing in MM    330 x 330       
Fuel Tank Capacity (Lit.)       14.0      
The 14/1’s are two versions, one with larger piston & longer stroke but lower speed, the other with smaller piston, shorter stroke but higher speed.  The 14/1’s use unusual piston and con rod’s.  I wonder if there was a typo in their spec. sheet – why would they use a piston exactly the same size as a standard con rod?

Ampro Exports      http://www.amproexports.com/lister-diesel-engines.html
H.P./ Cyl     6/1    8/1    10/1    12/1    14/1    16/1    12/2    16/2    20/2
RPM       650    850    1000    1000    850    850    650    850    1000
Bore       114.3   114.3   120   127   152.4   152.4   114.3   114.3   120
Stroke       139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   177.8   177.8   139.7   139.7   139.7
Bolt spacing   330 x 330            14, 16=356 x 356      2 cyl. = 381 x 559
Fuel Cap.(Lit.)   8   8   10   10   12   12   12   12
Lub. Oil Cap.   5   5   5   5   7.5   7.5   7.5   7.5   13
These all use the same con rod, except the 14/1 and 16/1.  Piston size and rpm varies.  Ampro uses the unusual 152.4x177.8 piston & con rod in their 14/1 and 16/1 – these engines also have an unusual size of foundation bolt pattern.  They offer what appear to be direct injection engines (“New Variety”), similar to (or the same?) as Satyajeet GM-90 in 6, 8, 10, & 12/1 models.  Check out their toilets (water closets)!
   

Aswamegh      http://www.indiamart.com/ashwamegh/#diesel-engine
H.P./Cyl      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1   12/2   14/1   15/1   16/2   20/2   20/2
RPM      650   850   1050   1000   650   1000   1000   850   1050   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   130   130   114.3   114.3   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   146.05   139.7   139.7   145   160   139.7   139.7
Compression ratio:  18:1, except 14/1 and 15/1 which are 16.5:1.  They are Direct Injection engines.
All 2 cylinders have bush main bearings and oil pump, can be ordered with taper roller bearing.  6/1 and 8/1 are splash only, but can be ordered with oil pump.  Same piston except 14/1, 16/1 and 20/2.  Con rod the same except 12/1, 15/1 & 16/2.

Atul Group   http://www.atulgroup.com
HP   6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1
RPM   650   850   1000   1000
Bore   114   120   120   127
Stroke   139.6   139.6   139.6   139.6
All use the same con rod, but it is 0.1mm shorter than the standard.  Is it really different or not?

Crossword Agro Industries   http://www.crosswordagro.com/english/ssde.htm
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1   12/2   16/1   12/2   16/2
See Nissan engines below.   

Field Marshall http://www.fieldmarshal.com
Model      FMS6   FMS8   FMS10   PMV   FM11   FM111   FMIV
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   6/1   8/1   9.5/1   10/1
RPM      660   850   1000   660   850   950   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   114.3   114.3   120   120
Stroke      130   130   130   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Compression   16:1         17:1
Somewhat unique rpm rating for 6/1, shorter con rod for 6, 8, 10/1 – are these the same as the direct injected engines offered by Satyajeet?  They share the unique con rod length.   Other 6, 8/1’s seem “standard”. 

Gangadhar Industries  http://www.gangadhar.net/diesel_engines5.html
Model #   01   01B   01M   02   02B   02M   08   08A   08M
HP/Cyl   6/1   6/1   6/1   8/1   8/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   10/1
RPM   650   650   650   850   850   850   1000   1000   1000
Bore   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   120   120   120
Stroke   139.7   139.7   130   139.7   139.7   130   139.7   139.7   130
All indirect injection w/iron piston except 08A with direct injection and Al piston.  All the 10/1’s and the “B” models have oil pumps.  The “B” models have bushing bearings, others with TRB’s.  The 10/1 “A” and “M” models have crankshaft balance weights.    No other information on foundations or compression.  All the 6 and 8 hp have standard piston, one with shorter con rod.  10 hp have larger piston, one with shorter con rod.  Most have “ISI” but do not define the term.  The company also manufacture gen sets, welders, pumps and other equipment. 

GG Auto Gears   http://www.ggautomotive.com/lg_04.htm   
No information on website about engines.

GTC Engines   http://www.geco-trade.com/default.asp
H.P./Cyl.   6/1   8/1   10/1   12/2   16/2
RPM   650   850   1000   650   850
Bore   114.3   114.3   120   114.3   114.3
Stroke   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Fuel tank   11   11   11   15   15
Compression  18:1
Same piston and con rod except piston for the 10/1.

Hindustan Trading Corporation    Liberty Diesel Engines   http://www.htcorporation.com/      
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   10/1LOP   10/1 CBW   12/1   14/1      
RPM      650   850   1000   1000   1000      850   900
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   120   120      127   127
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7      139.7   139.7
Compression   18:1                     Direct Injected
Bolt spacing   330x330
6/1, 8/1, 10/1 are splash lubricated, others have oil pumps.  Bushing or TRB bearings available. 14/1 is Direct Injected.  Two cylinder engines are said to be available, but the webpage is not present.

Hindustan Trading Co. “Mini-Listers”
HP/Cyl      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1   14/1
RPM      650   850   1000   1000   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   127   127
Stroke      133.3   133.3   133.3   133.3   133.3
Bolt space   305x204
Mini-Listers have different characteristics:  All have TRB’s.  6/ and 8/1 are splash lubricated, others have oil pump.  All have shorter stroke than “standard” listeroid.  10/1 may have Direct Injection, 14/1 is only available with Direct Injection.
All have a different foundation bolt pattern than the “standard” Listeroid.  They are also lighter than the “standard”.     

Hrishi Exports   http://www.hrishiexports.com/slow.html
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1   14/1   12/2   16/2   20/2         
RPM      650   850   1000   1000   1000   650   850   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   127   127   114.3   114.3   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Found. Bolt Space    330x330            381x559   
Fuel tank      8   8   10   10   12   12   12   12
Oil Capacity   5   5   5   5   5   7.5   7.5   7.5
All use the same con rod, only piston size varies.

http://www.indiamart.com/basantindustries/
http://www.indiamart.com/indiacasting/#diesel-engines
http://www.indiamart.com/doneria/
http://www.rishabhengineering.com/diesel-engines.html#lister-diesel-engines
These providers (manufacturers’?) provide almost no information about their engines except hp (sometimes).

JK Group of Industries  JKSON engines      http://www.jksonengines.com/ltde.htm   
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/2   16/2   20/2
RPM      650   850   1000   650   850   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   114.3   114.3   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Compression   18:1
Bush and TRB bearings available.  Oil pumps available.  Also rebranded as Power Solution (PS) by George of Utterpower and Joel.  PETTER / KIRLOSKAR engines also available.  Same con rod, two piston sizes.

Kirloskar      http://kirloskarapps.kirloskar.com/kirloskar/web/13$5010.html
Model      KS6   KS8   KS12   KS16
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   12/2   16/2
RPM      650   850   650   850
Bore      114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Fuel tank      11 lit.   11 lit.   15 lit   15 lit.
Compression   18:1
All engines are Direct Injection.  Petter-type engines are also available.  Guaranteed for 12 months against defects.
Oil cap. of 6/1 & 8/1 is 2.6 lit., smaller than “standard”.  Oil cap. of others 5.7 lit.  Same piston and con rod in all.
   

Kissan Iron     http://www.kissangroup.com/kissan_iron_works/product/lister_type.htm
Model   KIW-   10   1   2   7A   8   4   7   7FE   7DI    7DIH   
HP/cyl.      5/1   6/1   8/1   8/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   10/1   10/1   10/1
RPM      600   650   850   950   900   1000   1000   1000   1000   1000   
Bore      114.3   114.3   114.3   120   120   120   120   120   120   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   132   139.7   139.7
Found bolt space   330X330                     305X200   330X330   330X330
Fuel tank cap.   9   

Model   KIW-   12   12FE   14D.I.   
HP/cyl.      12/1   12/1   14/1
RPM      1000   1000   1000
Bore      127   127   127
Stroke      139.7   132   139.7
Found bolt space   330x330   305x200   330x330   
Fuel tank cap.   12   12   12
It appears that the DI models are direct injection and likely have aluminum pistons.  Heavy flywheels are available for some models, as are water pumps.  Smaller engines are splash lubricated, larger likely have pumps but it is unclear.   All use the same con rod, except one 12/1.    Two versions of 8/1, one with smaller piston & higher speed, one with larger piston and lower speed.  5 versions of 10/1, some with direct injection, one with smaller con rod.   All the same size base casting size except KE models of 10/1 and 12/1.

Lovson   http://www.lovson.com/lister-type-slow-speed-diesel-engines.html
Model      SL-6   SL-8   SL-10    SLC10   SLC10   SLC12
            /SLC   Tiger   Sumo   Sumo
HP/cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   10/1   12/1
RPM      650   850   1000   1000   900   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   120   127   127
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Compression   16:1   16:1   17:1   17:1   17:1   17:1
Oil cap.      5 lit.
Found. Bolt space   330x330
Generally TRB main bearings, but bushing with oil pump is available.  All use same con rod.

Metro/Metrex   http://www.metroexporters.com/pages/index.html
Model      ME-6   ME-8   ME-10   ME-12   ME-16   ME-20
HP/cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/2   16/2   20/2
RPM      650   850   1000   650   850   1050
Bore      114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Compression   18:1
All use the same piston and con rod, only rpm varies.

Mascot Enterprises   http://products.jimtrade.com/product_details.asp?ProductId=26396&SupplierId=92729
No information other than a generic “Lister” picture.

Nissan   Crossword Agro Industries   http://www.crosswordagro.com
Model      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1   16/1   12/2   16/2
The 12/1 is called a “Mini-Lister”, looks different from the “standard” lister types.  No spec. available.

Power Anand   http://www.poweranand.com/diesel_engine.htm
Model      6/1   8/1   10/1LOP   10/1CBW   12/1   12/2   16/2   20/2   24/2
RPM      650   850   1000   1000   1000   650   850   1000   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   120   130   114.3   114.3   120   130
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Compression   18:1
Fuel tank      8               13
Oil cap.      5               10
Found. Bolt space    330x330               560x382
The two 10/1’s have identical spec. but different model #’s.  All use the same con rod, two piston sizes.

Prakash/Fuking   http://www.prakash-india.com
Model      PL1   PL2   PL4   PL5
HP/Cyl.      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/1
RPM      650   850   1000   1000
Bore      120   120   120   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Direct or Indirect Injection.   Same pistons and con rods.


Satyajeet   http://www.satyajeet.com/de2.htm      GM-90 direct injection engines w/aluminum pistons
Model      GM90/6   GM90/8   GM90/10   GM90/10   GM90/12   GM90/10   GM90/14
               Super      Sendo
RPM      750   900   1000   950   1050   800   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   127   127   130   130
Stroke      130   130   130   130   130   146.5   146.5
Compression   17.5:1
Oil cap.      4.25
Found. Bolt space.   260x260      
Lub. Splash plus oil pumps.  Balance weights on crankshaft.  Most use a similar (but shorter) con rod than “standard” The two different con rods are unique too.  These engines have relatively the smallest foundation bolt spacing, except for “mini-Lister” of Hindustan Trading Corporation.

Sterling Agra   http://www.sterlingagra.com
The spec. and descriptions appear identical to Kissan Iron, found above.

Topland Group of Companies   http://www.topland-india.com/products/engine/htm/engine_1.htm
Model      10A1   10A   10B   12A   12B   12ADI   14A
HP/cyl      5/1   6/1   6/1   8/1   8/1   8/1   9.5/1
Bore      114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3   114.3
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
RPM      600   650   650   850   850   850   1000

Model      19A   15A   15A1   15B   16A   16A1   16ASD   16ADI   16ASDI
HP/cyl      10/1   10/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   10/1
Bore      120   120   120   120   120   120   120   120   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
RPM      1000   1000   900   1000   1000   900   1000   1000   1000

Model      11A   11A1   17A   28A   28A1   29ADI   29ADI1   30ADI   30ADI1   
HP/Cyl      12/1   10/1   12/1   10/1   14/1   10/1   15/1   16/1   10/1
Bore      127   127   127   127   127   127   127   130   130
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   160   160   160   160   160
RPM      1000   900   1000   900   900   1000   900   1000   900

Model      18ADI   18ADI2   20A   21A   22A   23A, 24A, 25A, 25ADI, 26A, 26AI, 27ADI, 27ADI1
HP/Cyl      18/1   20/1   12/2   16/2   20/2   “Mini-listers”, all 1 cyl, 130mm stroke, 114.3, 120.
Bore      155   155   114.3   114.3   114.3   127mm bores, 6,8,10,12,14 hp, 650-1000 rpm.
Stroke      177.8   177.8   139.7   139.7   139.7   1st three indirect injection, all others direct.
RPM      750   825   650   850   1000
36(!) different models, obviously from a wide range of  manufacturers.  Fourteen different 10/1’s!  First group has “standard” bore and stroke.  Second group has “semi-standard” bore of 120 mm and standard con rod.  They have a bewildering array of options, including SDM or Super Deluxe Model.  Curiously, the 18/1 and 20/1 do not have an oil pump, though many of the others do.  The two cylinders are all standard bore and stroke.  They also have high speed (1500 rpm) water cooled diesels from 3 to 45 hp and high speed air cooled from 3 to 20 hp.  Some engines are designed for marine use.  Also have gen sets, alternators, & pumps.  They say they are India’s largest manufacturer of engines and pumps.   


Vibha   http://www.vibha.com/diesel.html
Model      6/1   8/1   10/1   12/2   16/2   20/2
RPM      650   850   1000   650   850   1000
Bore      114.3   114.3   120   114.3   114.3   120
Stroke      139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
All use the same con rod, but two piston sizes.


Vidhata   http://www.vidhataindia.com
Model   VL5   VL6   VL7   VL8   VL9
HP/cyl.   6/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   12/1
RPM   650   850   950   1000   850
Bore   114.3   120   120   120   127
Stroke   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7
Same con rod, only piston varies.

Windsor Exports   http://www.agroengine.com/diesel1.htm#water
HP/Cyl   6/1   8/1   10/1   10/1   12/1   12/1   14/1   16/1   20/1
RPM   560   850   1000   1050   1000   650   900   850   1050
Bore    114.3   114.3   120   114.3   127   114.3   139.7   114.3   114.3
Stroke   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   139.7   152.4   139.7   139.7

The 6 and 8 HP are splash lubed, the rest have pumps.  All have 139.7 con rods, except the 14 HP.  The 14 HP has the unusual piston size of 139.7, the same as the  con rod in all the others.  Ammerajkot has this same combination of a 139.7 piston and 152.4 con rod in their 14/1, but rotates at 650 rpm instead of 900.  RPM and piston size varies considerably, but many have the “standard” 114.3 mm piston.  They also have Petteroids.
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

dieseldave

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #118 on: October 13, 2007, 04:44:58 AM »
HI!  I'm new to this site. This seems to be the best site going for Listeroid info! I caught the Lister virus about six weeks ago. I came across a thread on a site where a Lister is being used to generate power and also heat a house using WVO.

I have ordered a LG90 14/1 from Lovson. Should arrive in about 5 to 6 weeks time.

Lovson claims to do the following with thier engines:
    _we put all the partsthrough an acid wash,to clean the sand and other impurities.
    _our castings are graded,you wont find any holes on the body or the flywheels
    _we use steel gears,tappets are provided with"lapping"finish
    _every engine is tested with new oil

   In addition to this ,the LG or Little Giant engines have a counter balanced crankshaft and balanced flywheels. Direct injection/aluminum piston.  Unit comes with oil pump.

   After reading about the "sand issues" in various threads,I will have to wait and see. Hopefully,they are taking corrective action on the SAND issue.

Doug

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Re: The Brand Roundup
« Reply #119 on: October 14, 2007, 12:41:53 AM »
I have found another engine manufactured by KOEL and sold in North America as the KA-27

No pictures, no info other than a 78mm bore and 86 mm stroke. The engine data I have is from a generic service manual for small diesel engines printed in 1994. KOEL would apear to have a had a North American distributor.

Anyone have an info inthe KA - 27?

Doug
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