Author Topic: generator ratings  (Read 6091 times)

livecheap

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generator ratings
« on: November 25, 2006, 07:40:32 PM »
why is it when a consumer buys a generator its always watts lets say 5000 watts and when i poke around the DIY stuff everything is KW kilo watts
five kilo watts is 5000 watts correct ? i own a small house in ct 500 sq ft 1 bedroom and want to go off grid im trying to figure out my consumption
and see which lister would do the job im disabled and live on a fixed income but i still get around good enough to handle a lister i ran manufacturing
plants for 30 yrs   ---  no bills

cujet

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2006, 09:53:55 PM »
1) You are correct! 5000W is 5KW. I think it is simply easier to say 20KW than 20,000 watts.

2) Your energy consumption will be on your electric bill. For instance, a Listeroid 6-1 can make 3KW all day (24 hours) 72KWH per day, or put another way, about 2160KWH per month. It is very unlikely that you use this much if you have NON ELECTRIC heat.

3) The Listeroid cannot compete with the electric company as far as cost. Your local electric company is likely to be about 1/3 to 1/4 the actual cost per KWH.

4) The electric company can provide as much power as you are likely to need. If you feel like using your elec dryer (which draws more than a 6-1 can produce) your well pump and your circular saw all at the same time, your electric company can provide.

6) The Listeroid setup has one huge advantage over the power company. It can run on nearly any oil fuel and provide power anytime, AND I MEAN ANYTIME! Even when the wind is at 130MPH!

I live in Florida and have plenty of forced experience living off grid. $600 fuel lasts 3 weeks.

Chris
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dkwflight

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2006, 11:08:54 PM »
Hi With some insturments you can see exactly how much elec. you really need.
First buy a Kill-a-watt. This can help you trace down the power you actually use. and a the "Phantom" power you don't know you use.

Instant on tv always are useing some power. The electric alarm  clock too.
The computer etc.
When you go off grid you will find your self unplugging every thing to lower your use.

I believe that a battery bank is going to be more convenient to use than a generater only. This way you can start the gen set and use it at it's most efficient speed, probably around 60-70% of full load.

You probably will want to get up and start the gen set to run the electric water heater.  ;D  I've done the cold bath routine too!.

I'll bet you will soon be shopping for solar panels.
good luck
Dennis
28/2 powersolutions JKSon -20k gen head
Still in devlopment for 24/7 operation, 77 hours running time

livecheap

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2006, 12:31:44 AM »
thanks for the info the electric co in ct has us buy the short ones they just raised the elec rates 50% now they want another 10%
who do they think they are oil companys or something LOL big brother can kiss my uhhh well anyway lucky i know the propane guy and he gives me a discount, i do one load of wash and dry per week the only thing i use is lights all flouresant computer tv fridge no clocks i wear a watch my only problem is the sun beats on my house all day and it gets hot as heck lucky house is only 500 sq ft or so i use a small propane heater and one window air conditioner takes care of whole house. i need to find something that can grow quick to give a litte shade.     thanks again folks -LIVE CHEAP

Procrustes

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2006, 01:09:50 AM »
About the heat: is your ceiling insulated well?  Do you have curtains or blinds?  If not those things will help of course.

The complicated part of electrical usage is called load management.  You might use say 2kW per day,  but half of that may occur in a brief time when the well pump starts up once per day (these aren't realistic numbers).  A generator big enough to start your well pump is too big 99% of the time.

One solution is battery banks and inverters.  People with solar and wind power often have these.  Inverters convert DC power to AC.  They can also help with load management.  You could run a tiny generator and/or solar to charge batteries, and draw all your power from the inverters.   Since you have cheap propane you might buy or make a propane generator.  Any gas engine can be converted to propane.

Another strategy is something called 'grid-tie' or net metering.  This is where you maintain your electrical service, but sell some of your power back to the utility.  With this system you don't need a battery bank, but you might need an inverter for syncronizing with the grid AC.  Failing to do so can be catastrophic.  If you burn waste oils or have solar you can save money this way, you might even make money.  The programs vary from state to state.  There's a guy on this forum who was talking about doing this in Connecticut: http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=145.msg3457#msg3457
The downside of this is that you're still dependent on the grid, unless you do set up the battery bank too.

Beware of the consumer grade generators.  They aren't engineered to last very long, and would be a disaster for off grid use.  The ST heads that everyone here buys are far larger and heavier than what you see on the cheap units.  Also these run at 3,600 rpm and are very loud.  Two doors down they have a 3,600 rpm genny.  It's at least 150 yards away and still annoys me to no end.  The Lister 6/1 turns at 650 rpm for 60 hertz, and is by most accounts a pleasant sound.  Engines wear at the square of their RPM.

Good luck!

cujet

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2006, 03:57:48 AM »
I wanted to add that a clever use of a Listeroid is to power a generator, and to use the hot water produced to heat a house. Even the exhaust heat can be used for something.

Doing this can result in fantastic overall efficiency. Find a source of free waste fryer oil as a fuel, couple this with some method of power storage, an inverter for times of low power consumption and one could live for the cost of equipment maintenance.

Sounds like your needs are modest. It can be done.

Chris
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livecheap

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2006, 05:01:44 AM »
thanks cris sounds like a big old cast iron radiator should do the trick and i could use the propane heat during down time on the lister - how would someone control the heat - good quality ball valve ? for me its still in the planning stages but im taking notes from all you guys cause when i do something i do it once and i do it right. im a firm belever in learning from everybody eles mistakes its a lot cheaper.  thanks again - can the heat be controled by a thermostat ? sorry i have so many questions i have a lot of free time and this whole lister thing has a hold on me like stink on well you know what i mean LOL  thanks

rmchambers

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2006, 05:23:11 AM »
Who is your supplier?  UI or NU?   I hear my electric rates are going up 50% as of Jan 1.  I'm down in Stratford.

I bought a kill-a-watt (manufactured by P3 industries and found on Ebay) for about $25 delivered.  Found out some interesting things like the TV/stereo uses way more power in the course of a month than the washing machine doing 4 loads 4 times a month.  I made out a sheet and have been calculating all my power consumption and reducing it when I can.  Compact flourescent lights are very common in my house now!

I'm planning on getting a small Petteroid and ST head in the new year, a 7.5kw will be good for me, I don't plan on severing myself from the grid completely but I'd like to be able to run off grid for a while if needed.  Like after the past two wind storms we had and lost power.

I have a 3000W inverter in the basement and 4 golf cart batteries so I can run some critical loads off that if needed but without solar panels or a generator to supplement that system it's not going to last very long.

People here have said reduce your energy consumption first then size an appropriate generator for your needs. 

Good luck with the project! let us know what you decide to do.

Robert

cujet

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2006, 03:21:33 PM »
People much more clever than me have figured out how to use the waste heat of a listeroid. Although I have an engineering background, I have no actual experience with using Lister waste heat. No need here in Florida.

Engine power output will affect how much heat is available. Diesel engines produce very little waste heat at idle and very low loads.

I suspect a radiatior is a good way to transfer heat. Also a car rad with a fan could work.

Chris
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livecheap

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2006, 04:07:58 PM »
HEY ROBERT  northeast utilities this is crazy ---  they have it you need it just like big oil its all short term live for now grease my palm screw tomorrow i want to wake up rich the next day thats how they think nothing is justified - i hope blumenthal puts the kibosh in the whole thing.

rmchambers

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Re: generator ratings
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 08:01:26 PM »
I hope he does too, but in the meantime I'm swapping all the incandescent lights I can with compact flourescents and other general power use reducing measures.

If I can generate a little bit of power for myself and have a hobby engine to play with I'll be happy.  I'm not out to replace my grid connection just be able to run without it if the need presents itself.

Every $1 spent conserving energy is some number times that in cost avoidance in sizing a generator.

Robert