Author Topic: Air Filter  (Read 27315 times)

rpg52

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Air Filter
« on: January 09, 2006, 08:11:35 PM »
Hi everyone,
How many listeroids are using the stock oil bath air filter vs. changing to a paper filter?  If you changed, what did you use?  It seems the structure of the oil bath filter varies from engine to engine.  The paper filter recommended on the Utterpower CD would not fit in the oil bath canister provided with my PS engine.  What other choices are there?  Or, are the oil bath filters adequate?  Opinions welcome.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

t19

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2006, 08:21:51 PM »
I am going to convert mine to the K&M type I use on my Truck.  Its cleanable and seems to give me a little better MGP over paper
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

rpg52

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2006, 09:01:30 PM »
t19,
Did you modify the original metal structure to allow the different filter?  Is K&M a brand name or type of filter?  Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Joe

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2006, 09:20:30 PM »
K&N is a brand of high flow washable air cleaners.  Their sight, Fram and the other manufactures have a catalog of filters that can be sorted by size. You can get about any size that you want...however, and this is to me a key factor…what is availability and cost? I found a number of air filters that will fit the PS air filter base (Fall of 2005 batch) perfectly, but they are a bit pricey as compared to something that has an automotive application and is produced by the gazillion. Tractor supply stores have a number of nice alternatives readily available but the price was 17 to 19 bucks each.  To fit the filter to the PS base a large disk could be fitted to give the filter a flat spot to sit on.

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

rpg52

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 01:54:15 AM »
So, it seems like the criteria are:  1.  common enough to be cheap.  2.  fit the existing filter base.  After some consideration, I'm thinking of trying to find another base that will clamp on the Listeroid intake.  The filter base is 1-3/4" ID.  It seems to be nearly identical with a Briggs & Stratton 8 hp gas engine, of which I have 4 on different mowers, etc.  The filters for those run about $5, so if I can find another base that will clamp on the 1-3/4" intake of the Listeroid, I'm thinking of going with that.  A listeroid would take deeper breaths but it would seem like they might move the same relative amount of air.  None of this may matter much if the use is in a shed, but mine will be adjacent to a sawmill, and likely to be on the dusty side.  Any opinions?
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Joe

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 03:42:09 AM »
I stacked a couple of Kholer filters from my lawn mower and they could work well, they fit well, but the cost was more. As usual, George got it right again with the filter ID’d on his CD. It will do the job for about 5 bucks and they are available even at Wal-Mart…

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

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DirtbikePilot

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2006, 06:39:18 AM »
I just picked up a couple of air filters, one for the lister and one for the petter. They are fram "extra life" ca9053 and ca8037. the 8037 is the bigger one for the lister. They are EXACTLY what I was looking for and will filter much better than any oiled filter like a k&n (which I think are total garbage after owning 1).
Currently no listeroids, sad........ very sad.....
Just some other antique engines ranging from 40 pounds to 33,000 pounds each.

hotater

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2006, 01:22:07 AM »
I installed a $5 Walmart 'tophat'  filter but it only took a week for the screen on the inside to fragment and be sucked into the engine.  Another week and the paper filter was torn and there was no filtering.
  I'm now using the standard oil bath until I make a frame that I can wrap pieces of CHEAP vacuum cleaner bags from the thift stores around.

The impulse of the Lister intake is hard on filters.
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

BruceM

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2006, 02:54:29 AM »
i'm using the tall Carquest filter George B listed.  It does require modification of the oil bath filter housing. (Grinding around some spot welds.) Seems a reasonable solution. 

A loaded fuel consumption test by Jeff Maier indicated that the oil bath filter did not overly restrict the air flow- no improvement in fuel consumption using a high flow paper filter.  I would trust his data.

Bruce McCreary
Metro 6/1
Snowflake, AZ



rpg52

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2006, 07:22:24 PM »
Thanks BruceM, I hadn't seen the test by Jeff Maier - where did you see it?  Does anyone know how well the stock oil bath air cleaner does in a dusty environment?  My Listeroid will be adjacent to a sawmill, and hence will be surrounded by lots of dust.   I've used oil bath filters for years on engines as varied as a VW bug, a 1940 Chevy, a Detroit Diesel and and an International Tractor and I think they are fine.  The stock Listeroid one seems pretty skimpy on wire mesh though, which is why I was thinking of alternatives.  I'm planning on using the George B one too, I wonder what vehicle it was designed for?  I was also hoping to  find a oil/foam cover for it too, but am not sure where to look.  I'll be posting some photos at some point about my particular alterations.  Thanks,
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

BruceM

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2006, 07:39:06 PM »
Ray,
I think Jeff Maier's reltatively new oil bath vs paper test is on the Utterpower.com website. 
I think the oil bath stock filter is also slightly quieter. 

Please let me know if you find a foam oversleave for the CarQuest pleated paper filter. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce McCreary
Metro 6/1
Snowflake, AZ

Rory

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2006, 07:44:38 PM »
What's wrong with the stock oil bath air cleaner?? I think it's good for top end lubricant.
I build concrete pumps here at work and we get a lot of German engines from Duetz and they all come with oil bath air cleaners from the factory. It would be a lot cheaper to put a paper filter of them but they must put the more expensive oil bathe on them for some reason.

I have a buddy that has a 1969 Ford F250 with a 390 engine that has over 300,000 miles on it and it has an oil bath air cleaner on it.
there must be something to it......
Just my 2 cents
Later

rpg52

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2006, 08:51:37 PM »
Hi Rory,
I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with the stock filter, but am wondering how well it actually filters in a dusty environment.  Compared to other oil bath filters I've worked on it seems kind of small, and the wire mesh seems kind of coarse to do a thorough job.  The original Listers had a tall, oiled, felt air filter which seems more like the dry-type filters.  For most purposes, when the engine is in an engine house, the stock filter is likely completely adequate, but mine will just be under a tin roof, exposed to lots of saw dust and I am wondering how well the stock one will filter under those conditions.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

Tom

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2006, 09:26:34 PM »
Hello Rory,

I don't know if this applies, but I had an IH TD6 crawler loader with a Drott 4 in 1 bucked. When driving forward with a loaded bucket the dirt would sift through the crack between the 2 pieces of the bucket. It was then sucked up by the fan and blown right into the engine and driver. After a day of this the oil in the filter (about a quart) would turn into a cake of clay. So yes the remove a lot of dirt.

If you concerned I'd make an extension skirt for the cover, maybe down to the intake manifold. This way saw dust and large debris is likely to fall out of the air.
Tom
2004 Ashwamegh 6/1 #217 - ST5 just over 3k hours.

Thomas

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Re: Air Filter
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2006, 09:45:49 PM »
I remember reading some were tha an oil bath filter is at least as good as an element filter just messer. As long as you have oil you can change the filter in some cases this is a grate advantage. You can run the intake through a jar separator and take out the big things a lot of tractors use these.   Thomas