Slightly Unusual 5/1 Lister

[listerdiesel]

Looking at a pair of Lister 5/1 engines today in a scrapyard, both radiator cooled, I noticed that one had the later series of numbering,  it was a 1954 engine, and it was also a reverse rotation engine. The HP was 5 @ 600rpm, not 6 @ 650rpm which was not as unusual then as it appears to be now.

Both had sprockets on to drive something, so it was probably off a winch of some kind. I wasn't able to turn the other one over to get the number off it, but I did take a picture of the one plate.

http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Misc/Lister51Plate.jpg

4405 - Serial Number
51 - Type - 5/1
R - Reverse Rotation
4 - YOM - 1954

Peter

[emerald]

I have a 1932 5HP CS and it too has a sprocket on one side. 600RPM is the was the original spec of the CS engine. The 5HP engines are getting rare now. The flywheels on mine have markings to indicate it is a 5HP and one of my other 6HP CS's also have flywheels that suggest they were used when the change over from 5HP to 6HP took place.

Now that the nights are getting colder, I can start the old 5HP without heating aids. A JKSon 6HP needs help next this engine during the same starting temps. I bet the heads are not close enough on the JKSon to original spec and thats where the problem lay.

Emerald

[listerdiesel]

I have a 1932 5HP CS and it too has a sprocket on one side. 600RPM is the was the original spec of the CS engine. The 5HP engines are getting rare now. The flywheels on mine have markings to indicate it is a 5HP and one of my other 6HP CS's also have flywheels that suggest they were used when the change over from 5HP to 6HP took place.

Emerald

Sorry, I should have made myself a little more clear.

The 5/1 and 6/1 engines were the same, just that the 6/1 was a 650rpm and the 5/1 a 600rpm. What struck me was that they were still selling the 5/1 'badged' version in the 1950's when most people would have asked for the higher output. It is possible that the speed was a factor.

Re your comment about flywheels, there were no other mechanical changes at all, up until the 8/1 came along, then the flywheels changed to the solid type, the change-over valve was removed, the block had cored clearance for the main studs and so on.

 The spoked flywheels were always fitted to all the 3/1 5/1 6/1 10/2 12/2 except for generator engines, either SOM or straight drive, in which case the solid flywheels went on. I do not know of any non-generator CS engine that had solid flywheels, but I expect that one will come out of the woodwork now that I have said that! :-))

The flywheel type does vary a lot, but generally a solid flywheel and compression change-over valve indicates a CS engine from a generator set.

The last pair of 10/2's that we had through our hands a couple of years ago were ex-MOD (Ministry of Defence for the overseas guys) and they were both winch engines and both came with sprockets on the crankshafts. One went to Holland, one went to a friend in North Wales.

Regards,

Peter

[lendusaquid]

Sorry to get of subject but you mentioned rotation.This is something i am having a spot off bother with.I have a 1933 lister cs 5/1 serial No 3044 and i dont know which way it runs.I got it with the handle wanting to crank anti clockwise and the dipper is facing the door.It also looks to be a scoop dipper which surely must be wrong?.How can i tell for sure which way it is ment to run?.Cranking from the pump side by the way.

[listerdiesel]

4405 - Serial Number
51 - Type - 5/1
R - Reverse Rotation
4 - YOM - 1954

Correction on that, R is for Radiator Cooling, Z would be reverse rotation.

Peter

[listerdiesel]

Sorry to get of subject but you mentioned rotation.This is something i am having a spot off bother with.I have a 1933 lister cs 5/1 serial No 3044 and i dont know which way it runs.I got it with the handle wanting to crank anti clockwise and the dipper is facing the door.It also looks to be a scoop dipper which surely must be wrong?.How can i tell for sure which way it is ment to run?.Cranking from the pump side by the way.

Looking at the Change Numbers listing for the CD engines, the dipper has changed from:

Engine No 125 to 1299   Dipper P/No 3127
Engine No 1300 to 5863 Dipper P/No 5-1/D12
Engine No 5864 to Date  Dipper P/No 8-4-13C (Used with splash tray 8-2-102 ONLY)

So if you have an engine earlier than 5864 you shouldn't have the splash tray and would have an earlier dipper. The change lists don't give illustrations so I cannot give you any more details than that. This list is dated October 1947.

The earliest handbook I have is Book 103. This was reprinted and updated over the years, and I also have a 1951 copy where the dipper and splash guard are included, where they are not shown in the earlier book.

As far as rotation is concerned, it is clockwise looking at the flywheel on the injection pump side. The starting handle pawl should be reversible if you pull the pin and turn the pawl round. Sounds like someone has taken it out to clean it and put it back wrong. I can email you a photo of the correct assembly later if you need it.

Peter

[lendusaquid]

Thanks for the info, and your right about the splash plate because there is no bolt for fixing it to the back of the crankcase.And also ill just mention that the piston only has 4 rings and no place for a oil scrapper ring.

[listerdiesel]

Thanks for the info, and your right about the splash plate because there is no bolt for fixing it to the back of the crankcase.And also ill just mention that the piston only has 4 rings and no place for a oil scrapper ring.

There are a lot of changes to the pistons and rings on the earlier engines, including number of rings and gudgeon pin size.

5/1 Piston
Engine number 125 to 1299  Part No 5-1/D1 (Spec 10 to 13) 3 X 3/16" Rings and 1 X 3/16" scraper ABOVE gudgeon pin, 1-1/8" pin.
Engine number 1300 to 5157 Part No 5-1/D1A (Spec 14 to 19) 3 X 3/16" Rings and 1 X 3/16" scraper ABOVE gudgeon pin, 1-1/4" pin.
Engine number 5158 to 6748 Part No 5-1/D21 (Spec 20 only) 3 X 3/16" Rings and 1 X 3/16" scraper ABOVE gudgeon pin, 1-1/4" pin.
Engine number 6749 to 13079 Part No 8-4-23 (Spec 21 to 27) 3 X 1/8" Rings and 1 X 1/8" scraper ABOVE gudgeon pin, 1-1/4" pin.
Engine number 13080 to date Part No 8-4-24 (Spec 28 to date) 4 X 1/8" Rings and 1 X 1/8" scraper BELOW gudgeon pin, 1-1/4" pin.

3/1 Piston
Engine number 8832 to 13309  Part No 208/13 (Spec 1 to 6) 3 X 1/8" Rings and 1 X 1/8" scraper ABOVE gudgeon pin.
Engine number 13310 to date  Part No 208/16 (Spec 7 to date) 4 X 1/8" Rings and 1 X 3/16" scraper BELOW gudgeon pin.

Peter

[lendusaquid]

My piston must have been changed as i have 4 1/8 rings abouve the pin.Its looks like i will have to change the bottom one to a oil scrapper ring.Thats if i can find one.

[listerdiesel]

My piston must have been changed as i have 4 1/8 rings abouve the pin.Its looks like i will have to change the bottom one to a oil scrapper ring.Thats if i can find one.

There would have been a scraper ring at the lowest position on the piston, be it above or below the gudgeon pin.

5/1 scraper rings are available, I'll have a look and see if we have any new ones in the workshop.

Peter

[lendusaquid]

I would be most gratefull if you could find that oil scrapper ring or tell me where i could find one.I have a photo of my piston but how do i show it on here ?

Graham

[listerdiesel]

I'll have a look one night this week, we are a bit busy with site work at present and I am not getting back home until late each day.

If you have a site to upload your image to, you can put the url on the post, including the http:// at the front, otherwise I think the coppermine section (look at the top right-hand corner of the forum page) lets you upload an image.

Peter