Radiator thermostat & fan setup info needed

[Wayne]

Hi all, I just finished my new fuel system and am now moving on to a cooling system
for my radiator. The rad was for a chevy 8 cylinder pickup and need some info as to
what people are doing. I'm running a 10/1 listeroid and for now have an electric fan
perched on a stool until I can get something more permanent. I was hoping for a
thermostat that could be mounted to the outside of the rad which would turn on an
electric fan but as I search the web, I see nothing like that. Someone mentioned a
disc thermostat that may do that but no luck so far. A regular thermostat/ fan will mean
a 12 volt system which also means a 12 volt battery being charged electrically. I'm at
a loss for ideas here. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks Wayne

[Copybell]

Wayne,
   You might try a gable end vent fan for the attic of a house.  It usually comes with a thermostat, and it operates on 120volts.

Best regards,
Copybell

[SCOTT]

Wayne
What you are looking for is a bimetal temprature switch, these are commonly used in auto applications.  here is a link to a company that makes them:  http://www.cpi-nj.com/bimetal.htm
here is another
http://www.nasonptc.com/sw_temp.htm

For a radiator application order a “normally open close on rise switch”. When the pre set temp is reached (such as 195f) the 2 metal strips inside the probe will make contact completing a circuit.  These probes can handle up to 6 amps of resistive load, this is probably not enough for an inductive load such as a fan. 

You will need to add a relay that will close the actual fan circuit.  A relay is just an electromagnetic switch that closes the circuit you are concerned with, so the thermal switch provides enough current to activate the electromagnet inside of the relay that closes the circut which turns on your fan. 

You are NOT limited to 12vdc, there are relays capable of controlling household current.   One of these may work: 

http://search.ebay.com/ac-relay_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfnuZ1QQfposZ06903QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsadisZ200QQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbsQQxpufuZx

This would be a good time for one of the electrically inclined members to speak up.

Scott

[Tugger]

Im wondering if a fan is needed with a rad that big...its made for 8 cyl...you are only running 1...

[Wayne]

COPYBELL
The problem with those types of thermostats is the range of temperature is too low for this application. On that note though
I did find one that has an electrical 110 input and when the temp.
is met it turns on. This is good for instance for a barn ceiling fan
etc.

----------

SCOTT:
I think this is the information I need, thanks. At least now
I can start searching in the right direction. You seem to know what you're talking about and that's refreshing. Each phase of this is kind of like re-inventing the wheel and unless you're talking to someone on this list ...  people think I'm a cave man.

 "You want to do what"
Wayne

p.s. Scott, thanks for the links.
------------

Tugger:
Ya I was wondering that also. So far the longest run has been 1 1/2 hours. The temp got up to 165 deg. in the engine block. (I have a laser censer thingy) not sure how high it would go in a long run. I do have a thermostat in the "hot out port" of the engine and it's set to open around 170 F but after that it's up to the rad. and by the way you'd be surprised at the size, it's not really that big. I do have it vented to the outside and in our Canadian winters I suspect that it will cool on it's own at times but I'm not sure I want to trust that.
Wayne

[xyzer]

Wayne, Here is a pic of my radiator setup off of a Saturn. I added a larger reservoir to deal with the water expansion. I also looked for the same setup you are looking for and found the same problems. After running it last winter for a week pumping water I found it would not overheat. This was in the winter and the slightest breeze took care of it. I mounted a small 110v fan near the bottom of the radiator that I just plug in and let it run for summer use. I still need to do a summer test with a load and see if it will handle it ok. A bigger radiator will defiantly help! I also tilted it to get some thermal flow threw the radiator.

[Guy_Incognito]

From the sounds of things, you're either not really loading the engine up much at the moment, or it's getting pretty cold where you are. If you've a thermostat in the head that opens at 170 degrees or so, you could just wire a fan to run whenever the engine's running.

It also sounds like you don't really need much airflow - if you haven't made it  up past 160 degrees, your radiator might be too large (!) you might need to block a bit off with some cardboard and see if you can get it up to temp a bit more. In summer a small 12V thermofan (eg, an 8" or 10" one) run directly off a cheap battery charger might be fine. You can get thermoswitches that will then switch that fan directly - a lot of aftermarket kits have them, but a lot of modern cars have a little switch that sits in the bottom radiator tank and closes at a certain temperature.... so have a snoop about your local junkyard. The advantage with the thermofan and battery charger setup is that all the bitey voltages are away from you in the charger, which is generally a Good Thing. Especially if it's likely to get wet at some stage.

I wouldn't recommend the AC thermostat/relay approach to people that are unsure of it - no offense, but it sounds like you are. Supply here is 240V and it really, really hurts getting a tickle from that. If it doesn't kill you, that is.

[Wayne]

xyzer:
That's some setup you have there, great work. Ya I live in Canada and it gets pretty cold here plus I have a vent in the wall of my shed that exposes almost the whole rad face so maybe I won't need a fan in winter. I also hooked up this electric fan that I ran for my test run but now I think it's too big. It would be nice if there were such a thing as a contact plate thermostat that would simply trigger an electric fan. Maybe there actually is one but I sure can't find it if it does exist.


Guy_Incognito:
Hi Guy, you're right on all counts. I have only run the engine for
1 1/2 hrs. And a bunch of test starts for under a min. while setting it up. On your other point about not knowing what I'm doing ...  that's me but I'm learning. This is my first engine period!  but with many people answering questions for me in each step/phase (I'm taking it very slow here) I'm almost finished step 952 ;-)   When I did run the engine I varied the load as much as possible. I had it running the house although other than a fridge and freezer the biggest draw here is my deep well pump and the motor on my oil fired water heater. I heat with wood and cook with propane so in order to get a load on I would turn on everything. Ceiling fans, lights, stereo, T.V. , pump, etc. But it didn't seem to phase the engine too much. Next time I'll add some 1200 watt heaters. I'm mostly concerned with the break-in period and getting the rings seated properly.

Guy, you said  "I wouldn't recommend the AC thermostat/relay approach to people that are unsure of it"

I wasn't going to mess with the 240 v stuff. I have a 110v plug in the shed that's run from the transfer box when the 10/1 is running and I just wanted to plug the fan in there. Having it turn on/off with a thermostat seems to be the problem.

Anyway that's everyone for the input.
Wayne

[buickanddeere]

  195 stat in the engine 1st off.
  Summit Racing sells an electric cooling fan thermostatic control. Just strap that on and have it bring on a 120V cooling fan at 210-220 F through an interposing relay.

[Wayne]

buickanddeere:
Yes I think you're right it is a 195 F thermostat. My mistake.
Thanks for that info I'm on my way to check it out.
Wayne

[meteorscatter]

Wayne,

Get yourself a 12V DC  20 Amp power supply from Radio Shack then you can use the standard Car rad & Fan assy. mount a 110 plug near the engine, plug in the powersupply, hookup the 12v fan assy and your ready to go.

[dkwflight]

Hi
Rocketboy says his took 250 hours to fully breakin.
I have about 55 hrs and the engine runs a lot better now.
I believe that you should run your engine hotter and under a full load to properly breakin the engine.
Check with a refrigeration supply house foe "Klixon thermostast. they are non-adjustable. For an adjustable thermostat they will have a Danfoss or a Johnson or a Ranco thermostat with a bulb temp senser on a cap tube. You can order different lengths. and the t-stat will handle several amps load.

do a search for what you are looking for in this forum. A lot of questions are already covered.
Dennis

[Wayne]

meteorscatter:
That seems like the simplest solution yet. I'll look into all of it.
Thanks Wayne

dkwflight:
Ya I guess my typical house stuff isn't much of a load unless you want to run the hot water for a few weeks ;-)
Thanks for the info. Wayne