Author Topic: Changeover compression valve  (Read 63075 times)

Stan

  • Guest
Changeover compression valve
« on: January 07, 2006, 05:43:26 AM »
I am polling to find out what makes of Listeroids come equiped with a changeover compression valve like the original Listers.  As I understand it they are the screw in/out valves that change the compression from higher to start the engine, to lower for heavy loads.  What constitutes high and low I don't know.
Stan

Loren Johnston

  • shoveldriver
  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2006, 09:35:24 AM »
 Stan, I have ordered my 24/2 from oldstylelisters.com It will be here I hope at the end of Feb. It will have change over valves  and also steel gears. From my research all of the original Listers had them.   Loren

Reno Speedster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2006, 05:41:28 PM »
The Ahswamegh does not have the changeover compression valve.  I have oneo fo George's glow plugs for my head but would be interested on haveing the variable compression feature to try.  I wonder if they would be healpfull for adjusting compression for higher altitude?

Morgan

kyradawg

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2006, 05:57:54 PM »
n
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 07:33:52 PM by kyradawg »

quinnf

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2006, 06:19:50 PM »
Stan,

I asked the same question a while back.  It turns out there are several reasons the compression changeover valve was unique to the early British Listers, and didn't catch on with other manufacturers after the patents expired.  They are the same reasons you don't see the changeover compression valves on most Indian 'roids.  The cooler valves tend to accumulate carbon and eventually the abrasive carbon eats the packing around the changeover valve shaft and the valve leaks compression at the time you need it most.  That was a problem even with the British engines.  Injector and pump production techniques and materials also improved over the years.   Newer injection pumps and injectors produce finer and more consistent spray patterns than did earlier (pre-WWII) models, so the troublesome changeover valve was discontinued and not missed. 

Another thing to consider is that these engines are assembled from parts that are purchased from many manufacturers, much like PCs are today.  The piston pin location and rod length or the head clearance must be modified in a changeover valve engine.  Unless the manufacturer makes these uncommon parts for that application, AND the assembler picks the right parts specifically intended for this configuration, what you may find is that the engine runs fine in the high compression "start" mode, but smokes badly and doesn't want to start in the lower-compression "run" mode. 

As Willem just pointed out, his engines have the changeover valves.  Most don't think the bother is worthwhile.

Quinn







kyradawg

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2006, 07:20:28 PM »

Darren
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 07:34:46 PM by kyradawg »

kyradawg

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2006, 07:25:05 PM »
n
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 07:34:25 PM by kyradawg »

n2toh

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2006, 07:41:48 PM »
Hey even neater what if it was connected to the governer so that it adjusted cr dependent on load? Darren

Altho it would be cool it will still suffer from the same problem as the original valve. That is it will collent carbon and jam up.
About 60 years is all it takes to make science fiction a reality.

kyradawg

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2006, 08:46:53 PM »
y
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 07:35:25 PM by kyradawg »

Joe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2006, 08:47:21 PM »
Darren,
Most people go through life spelling words only one way...it is up to us with creative minds to offer alternatives...if they don't see the genius in that, there is little else we can do for them.... ;)

Joe
Nothing is easy...if it were...anybody could do it.

2005 Power Solutions  6/1-ST5

kyradawg

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2006, 09:01:50 PM »
Joe, thanks brother your the man!  ;D

hotater

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1557
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2006, 10:13:26 PM »
Joe said
Quote
Most people go through life spelling words only one way...it is up to us with creative minds to offer alternatives...if they don't see the genius in that......

I see "genius" at being able to cypher out the 'alternatives' !!    ;D ;D
7200 hrs on 6-1/5Kw, FuKing Listeroid,
Currently running PS-Kit 6-1/5Kw...and some MPs and Chanfas and diesel snowplows and trucks and stuff.

cujet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • Lister power rules!
    • View Profile
    • www.cujet.com
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2006, 10:19:21 PM »
I played with the changover valve on my GTC single today. It leaks in any position other that fully open or fully closed. The engine seems to run just fine in the low compression position. Looking at how it is made, I see no packings. It seals well enough and I believe it would be easy to clean any carbon out. It is just an acme screw that has 2 seating surfaces.

Chris
People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence

Stan

  • Guest
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2006, 10:52:46 PM »
Chris...I can send you the url for the original Lister manual (if you want) which very plainly and forcefully states the changeover compression valve MUST be in the fully in, or fully out position.  They state the engine will not even run if it is halfway between.  The cutaway drawing of the valve in the head shows why.  The fully in position (high compression) is for starting or very light loads only.  The fully out (lower compression) is for heavy loads.  The manual states the combination of high compression and heavy loads puts more stress on the moving parts than they are designed for (if I remember rightly).  I imagine someone using the wrong compression setting is (as was stated earlier in this thread) the reason for excess carbon and smoke.  I think leaving the compression valve out was an attempt to keep those with less than usual reasoning skills from ruining the motor.  Personally, I would want an engine that I could controll, not one that a manufacturer is trying to protect from me.
Stan

sid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
    • View Profile
Re: Changeover compression valve
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2006, 11:37:12 PM »
chris is correct/ the valve will leak while you adj. from high to low compression/ but seal very nicely in the fully open or fully closed position. I think it would take a lot of running for carbon to have any build up. mine will start in either position depending on the weather. on low compression it is a little harder to start also  during running it is hard to tell what position it is in. once you change position it settles down in either position and runs very smooth//on cold days the high compression does make it easier to start/  sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc