Need starter and filter ideas

[xyzer]

I'm in the process of do a 6/1 power solutions. I am planing on replacing the fuel filter and adding a oil filter. Any suggestions would be appricated. I would like to go with spin on type. Been looking for a compact remote type but getting one to fit where the old fuel filter is tough! Any ideas?

Also has anyone done a 12v starter on the 6/1? need ideas. One I had was use a heavy car flywheel on the ST head pulley to maybe calm some of the pulse. Would it turn the motor fast enough to start it? I figure it would easly get it through compression so it should. Feedback welcome!

Thanks
Dave

[Guy_Incognito]

Just about any recent 12v starter has the power to do it. The trick of course is getting that power onto the engine when you need it and keeping the starter disengaged from the engine when you don't.

For me , I'd use a generic reduction drive starter - they've heaps of torque compared to the older types and are very compact. A bosch or nippondenso one would do fine.

If you want to start it without decomp, you'll need a positive coupling and that generally means a ring gear.
Mounting a ring gear on either the flywheel or generator will do the job. Might be tough to find a ring gear that will fit on your ST head with enough clearance around to the ground/etc. I suppose one could take a standard car flywheel and machine the centre to fit to a hub that will go nicely on on the crankshaft behind the engine flywheel. An hour's work for a competant machinist, depending on what kind of flywheel you picked.

I also saw one somewhere where some clever dick mounted the electric clutch section from a A/C compressor on the front of a starter and used that somewhere along the belt drive instead.

Anyway, aim to have the starter drive running at a couple of thousand RPM at a few hundred RPM on the lister. This'll put you within the power and torque capabilites of most small starters.

[xyzer]

Thanks Guy,
What about automotive oil filters? I am looking for a remote mount spin on type. I am having problems finding one theat will use a minium of space...not having much luck. I was thinking of building 2 spin on type but use a smaller automotive type spin on. That is not a problem...my question will a automotive oil filter work OK for fuel? If I can make the the same it will save time and one filter size will help keep it simple.
Dave

[Guy_Incognito]

That is not a problem...my question will a automotive oil filter work OK for fuel?

Generally, it should work ok. The smallest micron filter you can get would be good. Really depends on how dirty your fuel is.
Remember that oil is under positive pressure, while generally fuel is gravity fed - this should be balanced to some extent by the fact that diesel is much thinner than oil.... and 6/1's don't really suck down the fuel that much.

But I'd prefer a primary fuel filter up the line somewhere with a water/rock  seperator, with a 1 or 2 micron inline filter near the injector pump somewhere. The Lucas/CAV filters with the clear seperator bowl under them are good - you can see if there's crud/water/paint flakes/etc in them.

It's pretty important to have the cleanest fuel possible. The bits in injector pumps aren't really forgiving of dirty fuel. Don't specifically know about the listeroid ones, but you're probably talking about 2 or 3 microns clearance or so maximum.

[binnie]

Hi Dave,
You might check out what Bruce M did for his starter on the 6/1(in copermine) which was an ingenious air pressure motor with hub against the flywheel to start.
I was entertaining the same type of starter for my 12/2 but the supplier of my engine...John Ferguson (a member here)...came up with a similar design that runs off of 12volt power pack battery...I am pleased with it...I do have picts if you wish to contact me off forum with your e-mail I will send them to you. (never could get through the frustration of trying to post on coppermine).
I also am waiting for a shipment from Mike Montief which will include a Fram type screw on filter for the gas line...to replace the one provided. He bought up a shipment from UPS delivery trucks that were not used...and they are reported to fit our engines very well. I am not too sure if he has any left or not...but you could check with him. Hope this is helpful, binnie

[FlyDC8s]

Newbie here, but what I did with my 24/1 15kw was install a Perma Cool 2 micron filter/water separator (made a wee bracket out of 1/4" plate)...

The starter was a little more complicated, I drilled/tapped the non-pulley side of the ST shaft for 1/2" coarse thread.  I put a Grade 9 bolt in there, and spin it up with my 1/2" drill with an impact socket on it.  Spinning it like this gives a 2-to-1 advantage (approx), and turns it faster than ya kin by hand...  I first tried turning it with a 3/8" drill, and smoked the liddle drill motor...  I sit on a shop stool, and brace the 2 handles of the 1/2" drill across my knees, I can easily reach up to release compression lever.  If no power to run drill, I have a 12 volt battery with a 800 watt inverter standing by.  I think for smaller generators, one could use smaller bolts...

As the engine starts, the bolt backs out - easy-peasy electric start, the El Cheapo way, works every time...

I looked into a portable 12 volt starter from Arrow Engine, it would probably have worked fine, , and not difficult at all to build the required mount into the cradle, but I didn't like the price ($1200).

Cheers,

Richard

[biobill]

Anyone remember the starter/generators on the Kohler powered Bolens lawn tractors (and probably many others). Thru the early 70's i think. Seems like only yesterday. I believe they would be plenty strong enough if the decomp was used and would also keep the battery charged. Belt driven. I'll give it a try if i ever become too old and feeble to crank . In fact, how about a solinoid opperated decomp. for remote starting. hmmmm....    Bill

[Ironworks]

I have been contemplating fabricating a rubber wheel to the end of a automotive starter.  I would then place it on a hinged lever near the flywheel, arrange a switch and run the starter wheel up against the flywheel to spin it.  It's basically a 12 version of a pony starter.  My Witte has a pony engine to start it and it works great.  The pony engine has the exact starter system I just described that starts it.  It works great!  Once I get my Lister sorted out Ill work on the starting system.

[binnie]

Iron works,
That is exactly what I have on my 12/2, a design by John Ferguson...however it has a 3' chrome pipe welded perpendicular to it to apply manual leverage power for the hub against the flywheel and the starter button is on the top end of the pipe, thumb operated....nice, simple, easy to operate with left hand leaving the right hand free to operate the controls on the rack. I hook it up to a 12v power pack. contact me off forum with addy & I'll send you some picts. Never could get coppermine to work...binnie (dunhill at sympatico.ca)
 

[xyzer]

Hey guys do forget me! I'm leaning toward that method of starting. It seems much simpler than having to mount a ring gear. I was flip floping between mounting a heavy ring gear and flywheel to the gen head to maybe calm some of the voltage pulse. I see the Lister SOM did somthing like that. Now we need to pick a good starter for modification.

[Eco Diesel]

Hey there XYZER!
If you look at the Raycor website you will see what an 120AT fuel/water separator looks like. Raycor is famous for quality and very well accepted in the marine industry. This unit uses a spin on replacable cartridge and has a clear bowl so you can see when it need the water drained off. These are often mounted on Kubota, Perkins and smaller gensets.The 120 fits as close to perfect as one can get on the Listeroid! Fits in the same location as the stocker inside the flywheel and right on the side of the cylinder. Cartridges are available in 2, 10 and 30 micron. You will need to drill and tap 2 new 12/24 holes into the cylinder mount pad just above the existing holes that hold the stock fuel filter.You will also need to borrow a flaring tool to flare the stock lines and will need a couple of 1/4" flare nuts to re couple the lines to the new filter housing. The stock fuel line on my motor were just long enough to cut, flare and re mount. I do have a picture of one mounted on a 6/1 on my website but I don't think I should post it here as I would have a commercial interest and do sell these filters. These filters are available from many diesel shops and should be available locally for you. Good luck to you.

Troy

[Guy_Incognito]

I still want some sort of automatic engagement.

I wonder if :
- you put a "cone" shaped wheel on the end of a starter motor.
- and angled it a bit to the flywheel, as the same angle as the cone, so that you've basically got two parallel surfaces, cone and flywheel, separated by 1/4" or so.
- so that when the starter engages and the solenoid throws the drive wheel out, it touches the flywheel.

Only thing is the torque from the starter might smoke it up a bit - it depends on the contact area and how hard it's thrown out.

Any of the "nose-cone-less" reduction drive starters should do the job - it's relatively easy to remove the pinion (usually a retaining ring and collar) and fit something else. Actually..... the pinion spline on the front of the starter and the spline on your typical A/C clutch is pretty similar.... I wonder how close they are? Fitting an electric clutch to the front of a starter and making it belt-driven might be easier than it first looks.

[Procrustes]

Eco Diesel,

Thanks for the tip on fuel filters.  It's spelled 'Racor' actually.  Here's a link to the unit you mentioned:

http://www.parker.com/EAD/displayCatalog.asp?menu_parkerid=46&menu_gid=3&menu_divid=109&catid=9816&subcatid=2551&catdesc=120A%20SERIES&viewtype=1&sMode=Details

[Ironworks]

Do you have any idea what the price is for that filter?  It looks alot like a Caterpillar filter, only shorter and I'm sure smaller...lol. 

[Procrustes]

Do you have any idea what the price is for that filter?  It looks alot like a Caterpillar filter, only shorter and I'm sure smaller...lol. 

This will give you an idea:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=racor+filter&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=98024&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=

As of right now there's a 120 on auction there.