This non constructive banter is getting old. Guy if I presented you with documents from Lister himself suggesting a mount other than a block of concrete you still would not change your mind. You are so invested and convinced that you are right that you are unwilling to even consider anything but block mounting.
Only because you refuse, flatly, to read what I write, respond to what I write, and quote what I write.
You prefer to read whatever meaning you choose into what I write, respond to things I do no write, and quote things I did not say.
IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF MY MIND BEING MADE UP ONE WAY OR ANOTHER DUMBASS.
THERE IS ONLY ONE POINT OF FOCUS HERE.
Lister, who made millions of engines, never, anywhere, in any documentation for the CS series stationary engines, which were still in production a decade after neil armstrong walked on the moon, which means they had access to every sort of flexible mount and material you can shake a stick at, never fucking ever talked about anything except mounting the engine solidly to a concrete block.
THIS IS NOT GUY FAWKES OPINION.
This is fact, I have made available for download several original lister documents out of my library, other people have them too, and other documents, yet NOBODY can produce anything that says anything except concrete block.
THIS IS NOT GUY FAWKES OPINION
THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION, PERIOD.
This is fact.
I do not have a fucking opinion on the subject, I have an opinion on which argument carries most weight, an argument made by a world class engine manufacturer with a century of commercial experience, or the argument of a few bloody idiots who do not know if their own assholes were punched or bored, who cannot, despite repeated very blunt asking, produce a single bit of documentary evidence from a respected source to support their argument, who have never designed, produced or sold a single stationary engine in their lives, but who are nevertheless determined that they are correct.
You ask for examples of manufacturers using mounts other than a block of concrete. I provide one and you dismiss the company, and their technology all to maintain your belief system that the end all be all in mounting a stationary engine is a big block of concrete.
I do not dismiss it in order to maintain my "belief", for one because I have no belief, and for two because the reason I dismiss it is simply because it is plainly specious.
it is half the displacement of a lister cs, a mere fraction, literally a fraction, of the mass, probably will not even tick over at the lister running speed, it is not vertically oriented, it is not continuous duty, it is not external flywheel, I could go on and on, a Lister d is more like a cs than that thing you linked to, and a lister d is spark ignition.
I enjoy a good debate but when the counterparty is not willing to have an honest discussion and tries to muddy the water with irrelevant nonsense like using depleted uranium as a mount it becomes useless to continue the discussion.
it is not a debate, you are claiming that x is possible, I am saying world authority y who made z number of these engines over a period of fifty years, long after man walked on the moon, and yes they were collaborating closely with other world class engineering and engine manufacturing firms world wide, so hardly in a technological vacuum, quite evidently never ever ever thought your position was tenable, which is why they never published anything mentioning it for the cs series.
because it has become apparent that I am talking to (technically speaking) idiots who like to take what I said and turn it into something I did not say, which was that Moses handed down the commandments to Lister, thou shalt bolt thy engine to a block of portland cement, and no other material, I spread the load a bit, yeah, you can use blocks of other materials to serve the same purpose as the block of cement, but none of them are practical.
Depleted uranium would be excellent all around, except it does fatigue quite badly and when it does it tends to form shards with sharp edges, which is why it makes a good munition...
Once I have the results from the engineer I will implement the system and take before and after video clips along with db readings. I will make the specs of the mounts avaliable to anyone who is interested. Anyone who cares can judge for themselves how they want to mount their engine.
Scott
scott, it's your engine, do what you like with it, I frankly don't give a shit, I'm not going to be near enough to it to worry one way or another. If you blow your big end or walk a flywheel off the cranks it ain't going to cost me a single cent or the slightest grief.
HERE IS THE TRUTH.
100% unadulterated zero bullshit truth.
I already got a Lister, genuine article, start-o-matic, in great condition, you know the saying "I'm all right Jack!" well I am, I am also a time served engineer who grew up around Lister CSs amongst other things. There is absolutely fuck all that you or kyrdawg et al can offer me, even for free, that is worth taking.
On the contrary, I have far more to give than I will ever recieve, I put some 80 megs of downloads and pictures up for free for anyone who wanted, I arranged one genuine lister for one board member (yeah, I asked for and got 50 quid for my "time", trust me I could have made more charging a punter for that time, and now there is someone else on here who may want to use my help in getting a genuine Lister.
The crack, what made it worth it, was community, talking to smart people, and some of the thread drift that got people talking about things they knew about.
Arguing the toss with people who are too blind and too stupid to see that the CS was made from 1929 until 1987, and in 1969 man walked on the moon, which was when concorde, a supersonic passenger transport first flew, which was 3 years after the world trade centre was started, and 1969 was EIGHTEEN fucking years before CS production stopped, and TWELVE years before the first space shuttle in 1981, which was SIX YEARS before cs production stopped. And you think somehow the guys at lister, who were a 30 minute drive from places that knew all about supersonic aircraft and spacecraft, who were literally in the same labour pool geographically, who will have drunk beer in the same pubs as these guys, were totally unaware of all the engineering implications.
Similarly the management of this company, which was always closely tied into the military - government complex and order books, was blissfully unaware of all this and still made glorified steam engines, and , errr, still managed to sell them to their client base, which was this military - government complex... uuuh, hang on a minute there...
Incidentally the UK government spy equivalent of langley, GCHQ, is about ten miles from Listers, so apart from the families with people working in both places, Listers exporting to Iran and the like for decades and all that other good stuff with a military industrial government marketplace kinda leads you to think lister were not run by fred flintstone.
Coventry (and Victor) was another engine / engineering firm with its nose firmly in the military industrial market, they were so good jaguar bought them, after all, coventry had designed and built engines for world +dog, from shackletons antarctic trip through triumph, morgan, crossley (and many others, thats off the top of my head) and later Lotus, TVR and cooper. anyway jap bought coventry because they were so good at cylinder head design, point is these were all local to each other and had associations going way back, and listers made many of the castings for them..... bamfords was a similar story, you know them now as JCB, they had a lot of mixing of blood too (I used to work for john bamford at one time and this is history straight from the horse's mouth)
You suggestion that there was "new" technology or "new" materials or "new" processes about that listers did not know about is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. It is akin to suggesting that oldsmobile developed the automatic transmission, but used it in hay balers because he never heard of a motor car.
Harry Ricardo died in 1974, 5 years after man walked on the moon, having harry ricardo working on your engine design would be like having Nicola Tesla work on your power station design or Oppenheimer working on your atom bomb design.
====================
People sometimes ask, "are you a good engineer?"
There are two answers, the first glib answer is "I am the second best engineer on this island / ship / city / whatever." to which they ask "who is the first" to which you reply "dunno, but there could be someone" and smile.
The real honest answer won't make any sense to anyone who is not themselves good enough and experienced enough to understand, the real answer is "the older I get and the more I learn, the more I realise just how many different jobs and fields of engineering I am not very good at" cos there is the thing, I can't weld as well as a welder, I can't turn as well as a turner, I can't fit better than a fitter, I can't do hydraulics better than a hydraulic bod, and if you're rushing ahead the answer isn't even that I can turn, fit, and do hydraulics better than the welder either, though i might be able to, depends on who the welder is.
the real answer is I solve problems more elegantly and effectively than any of the above, even though I may be apparently starting with totally inadequate or non existent tooling or resources.
I do it to commercial deadlines and it stays up with mission critical reliability and performance too.
that's what the big bucks are for
(well, it used to pay big bucks, nobody gives a shit now, look up "externalising" as regards to corporations)
The Lsier CS is elegant engineering, the concrete block which is the ONLY thing they specified is elegant engineering.
Flexi mounts on a CS are "heath robinson" engineering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heath_RobinsonIn a CS you have an EASY 10 megawatts of instantaneous power available thanks to all that rotating mass, 10 MW, even for an instant, because an instant is all it takes, requires elegance, not heath robinson crap.
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
Which basically translates as, in ceasar's day you'd be chained to an oar.
and with that I really am outta here, I don't care who you kill or maim, I'm all right jack.