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Author Topic: Metal spraying cranks  (Read 7780 times)

snail

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Metal spraying cranks
« on: September 26, 2006, 01:53:49 AM »
Hi all,
      I have a bit of a dilemma and need some experienced advice:
Having finally pulled the crank from my 10/2, I find the centre main and one big end have already been built up. Size and suface are good but the radius isn't there on either of them.Actually, the surface drops away by around 10 or 20 thou at the edge of each journal.The outer mains are undersize and will need building up.
      My question is this: What's the best plan of action?

a) have the outer mains metal sprayed  and leave the other journals as they are.

b) grind off all of the existing repairs and have the whole lot redone (never dealt with metal spraying, would it be possible to build up the radius? What's the adhesion like? Will it weaken things ?)

c) Fit an Indian crank.I have to bring in some Indian spares soon anyway, a crank will boost the freight bill though.Might ask for an oversize or unfinished one and get it ground here.

All observations are welcome.I'll be approaching the appropriate engineering shops for advice over the next couple of weeks.

Cheers,

Brian


Doug

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 02:44:01 AM »
A good machinist can fix almost anything, why not bring it some place and ask what they can do....
Spray works, subarc may be an option. I've seen a lot of cool stuff rebuilt for me inthe Electric motor shop subarced and ground back to spec for electric motors..

An Indian crank is cheap, so cheap you may as well order it and be out of pocket 20 dollars if its no good or has to be modified. It would be nice to get a top of the line crank if you do buy Indian, but I have no Idea who makes a good 10/1 crank ( KOEL doen't make a 10/1 no help there... )

Doug


listerdiesel

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 07:27:25 AM »
Decent crank repairs are usually solid, and the 10/2 is a low-speed engine so not subject to high stresses that would test a sprayed layer.

Find out what options/costs are available and go from there. We have a brand new Lister 10/2 crank here if you get stuck, I believe that the Indian cranks may differ in journal size as they have taper roller bearings?  perhaps someone with experience of the Listeroids could confirm that?

Peter

snail

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2006, 11:39:40 PM »
Thanks guys, the first two replies say "Get a local opinion" so that's exactly what I'll do. I was planning on this but just wondered if anyone has good/ bad experience with spraying lister cranks in particular.As I said,I have no experience of this and have detected a bit of reticence from some of the locals with regard to spraying ("ordinary") diesel cranks.

Peter- how much for the genuine crank? My wife's in the UK at the moment and although she's sure to whinge, I might be able to persuade her to pay the excess baggage if you could get it to Lincoln.
If you prefer, email me: sreatbigponddotnetdotau

Cheers,

Brian

Spark_Chaser

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2006, 12:50:08 AM »
Back in early 1994 I resurected a Ford inline 4 diesel engine that had severly spun a rod bearing.

With no used crank to be found (was 1994 whats an internet?) the forklift and disassembled engine were pushed out to be junked in the spring.

I located a company in Portland Oregon (cannot remember who) that felt they could grind out the damage, metal spray the journal, and grind back to STD size.

The crank looked good upon return, the price was reasonable, and the forklift was still working several years after I left.  If done properly I think metal spraying is a good fix.

My $.02
Spark_Chaser
6/1 GM90 disassembled and in work

past
5KW ST sold
Northern Lights 7KW sold

slowspeed1953

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2006, 02:26:12 AM »
It my understanding the listeroid crank journals are .125 larger than original lister pieces therefor even if the listeroid part is not perfect it can easily made so.

I would buy a listeroid crank and be done with it. Then repair the lister unit at your liesure.

Peace&Love :D, Darren

oldnslow

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2006, 03:20:22 PM »
Because of what I learned here on the forum about Lister quality vs Listeroid quality I would lean towards keeping the original Lister crankshaft, especially if they were forged. (Don't know if they were forged or cast.) I have a little experience with both submerged arc and spray. I  liked the submerged results better than spraywelding, especially if you want to build up a journal. If properly done, the radii can be recut after grinding to size. Pick a good shop, ask lots of questions. Good luck.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

emerald

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006, 07:54:37 PM »
I have prices on the genuine Lister crankshaft to suit the 6HP engine. PM me and I will give you the information.

If you think that is expensive, just wait until you hear prices for the 12HP twin!

I buy Indian spares in bulk when I have a number of CS engines to repair. I insist with the supplier they sell me the same grade material and hardness as Lister used. You can buy higher grade parts in India if you are prepared to spend the time and money.

Good parts are not cheap anywhere, good engineering is worth paying for IMO.

Emerald

listerdiesel

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006, 08:27:28 PM »
Thanks guys, the first two replies say "Get a local opinion" so that's exactly what I'll do. I was planning on this but just wondered if anyone has good/ bad experience with spraying lister cranks in particular.As I said,I have no experience of this and have detected a bit of reticence from some of the locals with regard to spraying ("ordinary") diesel cranks.

There is no reason not to recover a Lister or any other crankshaft as long as the material is suitable for purpose. Early Indian crankshafts had a distressing tendency to crack, but their quality control is better now so that should not be an issue. Lister cranks were forged blanks and machined from an early time IIRC.

[quote}
Peter- how much for the genuine crank? My wife's in the UK at the moment and although she's sure to whinge, I might be able to persuade her to pay the excess baggage if you could get it to Lincoln.
If you prefer, email me: sreatbigponddotnetdotau
Quote

Do you have any idea of what a crankshaft weighs?  I'd hate my wife to have to haul this through  the baggage check!  It is about 150lbs to 175lbs weight, price would be £350.00 plus cost of transport to Lincoln or Oz, whichever you prefer. I don't know what a new Lister crank is from a dealer, probably more than double that if you can get one. I've had this for some years, it's still in that dark preservative grease that they packed them in.

Quote
Cheers,

Brian

Peter

snail

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006, 11:48:37 PM »
Peter,
       thanks for the price and info. I've made a few enquiries locally and am heading towards repairing the original at the moment.
Quote
Do you have any idea of what a crankshaft weighs?  I'd hate my wife to have to haul this through  the baggage check!  It is about 150lbs to 175lbs weight,
I did check this before suggesting xs baggage :D. for the record,30.08 KG. Wouldn't make much difference to the amount of luggage my dear wife carries! ;D ;D. Oh God , did I put that in writing? ;D ;D

Cheers,

Brian

listerdiesel

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2006, 02:24:34 PM »
Peter,
       thanks for the price and info. I've made a few enquiries locally and am heading towards repairing the original at the moment.
Quote
Do you have any idea of what a crankshaft weighs?  I'd hate my wife to have to haul this through  the baggage check!  It is about 150lbs to 175lbs weight,
I did check this before suggesting xs baggage :D. for the record,30.08 KG. Wouldn't make much difference to the amount of luggage my dear wife carries! ;D ;D. Oh God , did I put that in writing? ;D ;D

Cheers,

Brian

Yes, that would be the wise thing to do, but the original is there if you find you cannot get something sorted. There are also a great bunch of engine guys out there who I can put you in touch with if need be, they may well have extra info/help they can offer.

Is that 38kg the actual weight of your crank?  I had guessed what I quoted in my original post :-))

Peter

snail

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Re: Metal spraying cranks
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2006, 12:38:07 AM »
Peter,
      Yup, my original 10/2 crank weighs 30.08Kg. If you're interested, one of the original flywheels weighs 56.77 kg! One day, I'll get around to weighing the counterweight too. It's all part of the balance thing, but I'll leave that for other threads! :D

cheers,

Brian