Author Topic: Call me Lazarus...  (Read 6425 times)

GuyFawkes

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Call me Lazarus...
« on: September 17, 2006, 11:22:59 AM »
Lots of things, in no specific order, learn from them if you choose.

1/ I see that since my departure / absence other have taken up the mantle of defenders of the faith, e.g. plain old hard engineering fact, and for their troubles are being pilloried in exactly the same way I was by those who either think they know better, or are just in it for the argument anyway.

2/ The idiots that followed me here from Usenet because I refused to play with them there any more (I'm letting the Court system do my talking, it's a lot slower and impersonal, but I get on with my life and they end up facing custodial sentences for breach of injunction) are a symptom of this.

3/ The net isn't what it used to be, anyone can get online now, for almost zero cost, and boy do they get online, and stay there.

4/ There is a thing called the Tragedy of the Commons, in times past in England we had "common land" which was owned by nobody, anyone could use it to graze their animals, which works fine until the check and balances are removed and someone works out that not only can they stick 5 cattle on the land instead of 1 and overgraze it, but that sooner or later someone else will figure this out too, so before it is turned into a dustbowl better get your animals up there first while the going is good.

5/ This "Tragedy of the commons" has come to the internet in general since about 1999, set up a new website such as this one and it is only a matter of time before those who have overgrazed their psyche elsewhere find your new pastures and abuse them.

6/ The Tragedy of the commons applies to personality too, ask Andy / T19, here is someone who I've had actual dealing with, real cash, real iron, real engines, he won't have anything bad to say about me. I've never met or talked to George at utterpower, but it is a no brainer to say that anyone who has shared real cash / iron / engines with the guy has nowt bad to say.

7/ The people I've been prickliest with throught my life are the same as those on here, no cash, no iron and no engineering, waste of my fucking time and everyone else's to argue the toss with someone who doesn't own a Lister, and won't either, back in the day running custom Harleys or other such, no end of dreamers who wanted to talk to you about what you were actually doing with your life, fuck them all off and reserve your time for those who were doing it or working on it, not those who were dreaming about it.

8/ I posted a picture a long time ago of a broken Lister crankshaft, and said here is what vibration does. Vibration kills machinery. That is not an opinion, that is fact, you either have the (engineering) education and experience to understand that or you don't, waste of time arguing with people who don't and who don't therefore have the tools required to learn why they are wrong, let the fuckers rubber mount their engines, they will pay the price eventually.

9/ Time to get real unpopular. George charges (I believe) ten bucks for his CD (which I have never seen) If you can't afford ten bucks for his CD you can't afford a Lister or anything else he sells. Same goes for this website and any other themed / subject website. The days of free access to stuff are gone, give free access now and unless you have a whole bunch of fanatical people involved in administration, such as Linux for example (and even that has its issues) then all you get is a Tragedy of the commons, which those who know nothing drowning out those who know everything a newbie needs to know, with those who will only ever dream and delude themselves drowning out those who are actually doing it for themselves. If you want this website to survive you'd better make it annual dues, no exceptions, no charter members, no dues no access, at a stroke you eliminate the Tragedy of the commons.

10/ Time to get personal and unpopular, Kyrdawg may be someone I could kick back and have a beer with and enjoy myself, but I don't have to go online to meet more people that I can do that with than I have enough remaining years for in my life, and I'm barely middle aged. For the purposes of this forum and that means Lister and Listeroids and ancilliary gear ONLY the guy is less than a waste of space, he is noise attenuating the signal and reducing it. He may be a lovely guy but he is as much use as a chocolate fireguard on this website, and people don't come to Listerengine.com to meet drinking buddies, russian bride, porn, or any of that other shit. I single him out only as an example, he is far from unique.

11/ Over the next few months, time allowing, I'll document what I am doing with my "mobile engine room" as shipchief called it, make it a proper engineering resource, but multimedia, lots of pictures and video and "how to" shit, no way will it fit on one DVD, but once done anyone handy with spanners can do the whole mobile engine room thing for themselves, and you can bet your ass I will be selling it for money and not giving it away and not giving anyone a forum to indulge in a Tragedy of the commons, where people who lack experience and knowledge can debate the pros and cons of flexible mounts etc etc etc.

12/ I didn't used to feel this way. I always believed in the net, and I still do. It is not about me getting older, it is about the net getting older. The net has evolved, I am evolving with it. Sooner or later all of you who are worth anything will get this.... You either have a community with a strong stakeholder participation like Linux, or you have a community with a financial incentive not to shit on your own doorstep, or you have a Tragedy of the commons where everyone who isn't doing anything with their life can come and play on your time.

13/ Get this, my life is so much better since I decided to tune out and drop out of all the usenet and http unmoderated forum side of things, I have hours more free time per day, I get shit loads more done, I have no stress cos I only use my time talking to people who are on the same wavelength or those who actually genuinely desperately want to know and learn about this stuff. It is as life changing as dumping some old harridan and getting yourself a new younger model woman. I am not kidding here folks. Instead of being in here arguing the toss about engine theory with people who don't know and don't accept that there is no shortcut to avoid the hard work of learning, I'm out there getting on with stuff and ticking jobs off the list and making room to add new ones.

14/ Those of you who have chatted in the past feel free to continue to do so, if you want copies of documentation or pictures or measurements etc email me, I am no longer going to provide everything for free to asswipes, so no public downloads for all and sundry, life's a bitch, so sue me.

15/ Don't PM me here, because today is the first time I've logged in since way back when, and I doubt I will log in again for some time, email me.

16/ I hope some of you with a clue will read all this and "get" what I am trying to tell you and pull something useful out of it, eg the Tragedy of the commons thing is here to stay and the only way to beat it is to eliminate that particular playing field. If this site goes subscription only I will reconsider my participation, until then my time is too valuable to waste it trying to weed out those who are real from those who are dreamers.

17/ Your time is at least as valuable as mine, how many hours of it have you wasted online arguing the toss with people who aren't prepared to listen? Or, if you are one of those seeking information, how many hours have you wasted trying to sort shit from shinola?

18/ Catch you all on the flipside, still drop by and (not log in) watch now and again, waiting for T19 to give birth to antique produced enhaust gases, expectant father style, he'll have that look same as my mate did in the video he posted, THAT SHIT is what makes the time rewarding, not arguing the toss with the unqualified.

19/ If anyone thinks this is all sour grapes because the old man of the sea didn't get enough people touching their forelock, then you really really need to wake up.

20/ catch you on the flipside.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

DaveW

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 01:39:51 PM »
    Let me be the first to say it is great to hear from you again, if only briefly.  I (we) miss your straight from the hip and take no lip approach to engines and engineering.  I understand your attitude and desire to get on with things, but still your presence is missed.  Though I suspect I am older than you, you remind me of my mentor in things electrical some 50 years ago.  His approach was 'do it my way or die, as we go along we will sort out the reasons why'.  I'm still alive, so maybe I listened more than he knew. Its just a shame that the wisdom of age and experience is for the most part wasted on the young, I only wish I could see him one more time to truely thank him for his efforts.  You know, of course, that you are welcome any time by those of us trying to learn.

1966Crew

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 01:53:56 PM »
Guyfawkes, I am pleased you have decided to post even if it is a one shot deal. I hope one day you decide to rejoin this group as I miss your reasoned, studied responces.

I agree with you on the direction of the internet. For those of low moral fiber aninomity breeds contempt. It reminds me of a quote by someone in reference to our former Presidents wrongdoings. "The true test of a man's character is how he behaves when no one is watching."

Looking forward to buying your Lister Engeneering Resource DVD.

Jon

bitsnpieces1

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 07:28:44 PM »
  Great to hear from you.  Just hope I'm not in the Id**** class.  My setup is proceeding slowly due to some restrictions that are slow to resolve, but, it'll get there.  Look forward to more wherever it is. 
Lister Petter AC1, Listeroid 12/1, Briggs & Stratton ZZ, various US Mil. surplus engines. Crosley (American) 4cyl marine engine(26hp).

Tugger

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2006, 12:57:41 AM »
Wish you would stick around more...i learn best from grumpy farts.....direct answers, to intelligent questions....

oldnslow

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2006, 07:16:40 PM »
Sorry to see such a gifted and generous person get to this point but it was inevitable. Your points are well taken. Thanks for all the information you have given me including the Connections DVD's and Engineering manuals. Looking forward to seeing your "mobile engine room" someday.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

binnie

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2006, 10:15:33 PM »
Nice to see you post again,Guy.
I for one am going to miss you & your singular style & experitse. I have Learned a lot from your posts & appreciate your giving & sharing so freely, your hard won practial & technical info. on the Lister in particular.I'm sure you were the inspiration for a few of our members to jump for an original SOM.
Let us know when your CD is available and don't hesitate to post here in the future. We are going to miss you. Binnie
Listeroid 12/2 Jkson with 10kw head, for backup now on diesel. Future interests: WVO, bio,  Cogen - Heat exchangers - solar.

Rtqii

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2006, 12:46:43 AM »
... I see that since my departure / absence other have taken up the mantle of defenders of the faith, e.g. plain old hard engineering fact, and for their troubles are being pilloried in exactly the same way I was by those who either think they know better, or are just in it for the argument anyway.

LOL... That's probably me you are talking about  ;D

Quote
... I posted a picture a long time ago of a broken Lister crankshaft, and said here is what vibration does. Vibration kills machinery. That is not an opinion, that is fact, you either have the (engineering) education and experience to understand that or you don't, waste of time arguing with people who don't and who don't therefore have the tools required to learn why they are wrong, let the fuckers rubber mount their engines, they will pay the price eventually.

I try to tell them... I always put in the caveat... People are free to do whatever they want with their own engines on their own soil.  I draw the line when they come here and start posting to convince people how to ruin bearings, break crankshafts, crack walls & foundations etc...

http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=1033.msg13735#msg13735

So of course I am pilloried!!!

Good to see you Guy, stop in again soon!!!

Dail R H

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2006, 05:33:20 PM »
   Now how are those of us who don't know all this stuff going to learn it?????????????????

GuyFawkes

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2006, 05:59:30 PM »
   Now how are those of us who don't know all this stuff going to learn it?????????????????

To put it bluntly.

1/ You pay nothing for this site. To read or to post.

2/ #1 means that I and kyrdawg get equal billing, I'm free to tell you the straight shit, he is free to talk bollocks***, you are free to by definition not be able to tell the difference between the two.

3/ Until / Unless you change something, you'll be in the same place.


*** as an example of talking bollocks is the current solid / flexible mount thread, where rtgii or whatever his handle is is now taking my place in the firing line, darren as usual is talking utter crap, not one of you have identified the real reason why elastic mounts are a very very bad idea, even though the answer is literally staring you all in the face in the shape of the crank case.

centre of mass.

add a large mass to the block and you shift the centre of mass, and therefore the centre of effort for all the vibes, away from where they do harm by fatiguing the internals, to where they are safe in a block of concrete.

whether YOU feel vibration is irellevant to fatiguing a piece of machinery, YOUR comfort is not an issue.

as rtquii says, find a commercially installed stationary engine with flexible mounts, of course they could ALL be wrong and some idiot on here could be right.

I'm off to redesign the 747, those idiots at boeing don't know what they're doing, I can build that plane for a million bucks.
--
Original Lister CS 6/1 Start-o-matic 2.5 Kw (radiator conversion)
3Kw 130 VDC Dynamo to be added. (compressor + hyd pump)
Original Lister D, megasquirt multifuel project, compressor and truck alternator.
Current status - project / standby, Fuel, good old pump diesel.

rpg52

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 01:35:16 AM »
Guy Fawkes quote,  ". . . the real reason why elastic mounts are a very very bad idea, even though the answer is literally staring you all in the face in the shape of the crank case.

centre of mass."

I don't disagree with anything you posted Guy, but, in my case, I'm a biologist, not an engineer.  While it's likely I could teach many of the members of this forum about principles of living things, that's not the topic.  Physics was 35 years ago and my practical knowlege of mechanical engineering was obtained as a shade tree mechanic.  (Which means that many jobs I hire out, since wind, rain and dirt don't allow good mechanical working conditions.)

While I'm not dumb, I rely on those with more experience and training than I to tell me the proper way to construct an engine base, (or other phases of mechanical construction).  I'd even be willing to support ($, I don't have a key for pounds) for good advice.  Those three words, "center [or centre] of mass" explained it to me.  Thanks for the epiphany, it may have been staring me in the face, but I couldn't see it.
Ray
PS Listeroid 6/1, 5 kW ST, Detroit Diesel 3-71, Belsaw sawmill, 12 kW ST head, '71 GMC 3/4 T, '79 GMC 1T, '59 IH T-340

oldnslow

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2006, 09:44:57 PM »
When Christ called Lazarus to come forth, he was 4 days dead in the grave. What did God do to make him live? He seperated the good from the bad and restored the soul. How do we seperate the good from the bad? Sound engineering advice from theory and conjecture?

Most just read the arguments and use their own judgement I guess.

Guy and other members freely give knowlege, experiences and even documents to anyone willing to learn.  But wouldn't it piss you off that in the middle of a discussion you are argued to death when you know what you are saying is proven fact?

In reality we are just a chat room and no one is wrong or right. Say what you want, there is no authority here. It is up to the individual to figure out what's right and wrong. But if this website wants to become more than that and have a soul; If you want to keep the experts around then someone has to address the points Guy is trying to make. Otherwise, Lazarus will remain in the grave.
Mistakes are the cost of tuition.

phaedrus

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2006, 06:13:47 PM »
Hi Guy,

Well said.  "The Commons" is, well, common - the meaning's changed over the years, I believe...

'bout George at Uttertpower and his cd - I got it,  at 20.00 it was money well spent. I will remark that it is not well indexed - but in a way that forces one to read the entire data mass , and that's just as well. He includes some material that seems extraneous to me, but the pithy stuff is well worth paying for and reading (and note-taking). (I don't believe he has paid enough attention to foundations though, and I told him so.)

Best and hope you will visit from time to time - and advise when cd is ready.

Phaedrus
if ya don't ask permission they can't deny it...

mobile_bob

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Re: Call me Lazarus...
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2006, 06:38:49 PM »
part of the debate is the give and take, questions and answers,

asking clear and concise questions and "EXPECTING" clear and concises answers

almost every time a hard question is asked, there are those that are put on a throne that either
refuse to answer the question, dodge the question, or go off on some colorful tangent.

seems as though when hard questions are asked some folks drift away for a bit, only to return
when the fire has died down.

i have asked some hard questions, and will continue to do so, either one has the answer, or one should
step up and state "i don't know", but then again if you base your foundation on things you cannot support
your "statement of fact" lose credibility in a debate.

later

bob g
otherpower.com, microcogen.info, practicalmachinist.com
(useful forums), utterpower.com for all sorts of diy info