Author Topic: 6/1 and generator setup  (Read 65391 times)

Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2006, 02:09:46 AM »
I am going to cheerfully ignore Guy's posts  ;D ;D ;D (And laugh)

sid

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2006, 02:18:24 AM »
as for the maytag engine//// the jury is still out.. so say it is a noise maker others say it is used for mosquito control...every one should own two maytags. the first one because they are easy to obtain and the second one is to see if they are really that bad/ they are really nice engines as long as you do not start one,,,  they are almost as much fun a a fairmont engine... you may have to look that one up///sorry about that//sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

Guy_Incognito

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2006, 02:19:44 AM »
I am going to cheerfully ignore Guy's posts  ;D ;D ;D (And laugh)

Finally Rtgii !  :D

Hey, wait a minute.... Dammit! I was going to cheerfully ignore you first! Oh well.
Such a cheerful bunch of folks around here!  ;)



t19

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2006, 02:44:39 AM »
Hey... no group hugs... its not that kind of site  :D
There is plenty of room for all of Gods creatures... right next to the mashed potatoes...

Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2006, 03:14:37 AM »
as for the maytag engine///

Don't get me started... But I did end up having a good experience with my engine. I sold it for more than I paid for it  ;)

It's not a bad story... I am not going to talk about the engine specifics  :)

I bought the engine from a guy for $10 back when $10 to a kid was real money and you had to work hard to come up with it.  The guy started it to prove it ran. My mother scowled when I showed up at the door excited and told her I needed her to drive me back over to pick it up.

After a couple of weeks I figured out how to start it reliably... It needed work, I ended up tearing it down and did everything. Parts were available and machine work was reasonable on a single cylinder. After awhile I got bored with it, ran it on a go-cart for some years... Got bored with the go-cart.

Years passed, other engines came and went with them.

My great aunt died, and she owned property in Illinois where she grew up. I was one of the people tasked with cleaning it up.  Down in the basement I dug out an old maytag washer without an engine and I got an idea.

It took me two weeks to clean, repair, and repaint the washer. I had junked the go-cart ages ago, but saved the engine... I dropped the engine into the washer and sold it for a mint. Real money... I was amazed.

sid

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2006, 03:37:47 AM »
maytags have been the start of many engines collectors///just right for the beginer.. I have a friend with over 100 of the the devils.. he has 9 that are still in the original shipping box..plus alll of the accessories.. like milk churn that you put on the agitator and the sausage grinderthat is put on the on the wringers/they must have made a millon of them and parts are still available for them.I think the motor of all of them were saved and the washer thrown away// I still see dozens at any engine show// in the last few years I have seen two of the fruit jar maytag engines..they had a quart glass jar for the gas tank/ turned up side down in a holder they  were an instant fire hazard/burned a lot of house down before they were replaced//I have a replace for the maytag. an iron hosre.made by johnson  about 1 1/2 hp and kick start. but it is 4 cycle.no smoke or noise.. sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

albany dbd

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2006, 04:11:01 AM »
so you havent had or worked a listeroid but you can get on your high horse and say we're wrong and dont know what we're doing even though we are running them all day everyday day after day. yes we have break downs some are worse then others. when you get your engine and you run oh say 2000 hours and you know more real time data people might start listening
class 5 steam fitter - millwright - class 6 code pipe and pressure vessel welder - fabricator.  oh and good old country boy from the farm. 
( Beat it to fit paint to match ) oh and X-ray of course

Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2006, 04:16:29 AM »
LOL at the Maytag... Indeed you do see them at the shows, a lot of them. The washers are rare apparently and the washer I happened upon was the correct match for my engine.  There were a zillion of them made, but complete restored washers are worth over $500 today easily... I had people standing in line to buy mine. And the two weeks spent getting it together was just a few hours every day after work.

The Maytag go-cart was way under powered for my speed demon tastes, and I was really tempted to hot-rod the engine but I never put brakes on the cart. Eventually I bought a racing cart frame (with real brakes) and blue printed a chain saw engine to feed the speed demon.

We had a big hill in our neighborhood and running flat out down the hill I could get to maybe 20 mph. Not fast enough, but the real exciting part was not having brakes. I caught hell for wearing out a pair of tennis shoes in one weekend, and several times I had as much smoke coming off the soles of my shoes as the Maytag produced. Gawd... I used to tape carpet scraps to the soles of my shoes, and I got brake heat induced blisters and callouses on the soles of my feet with that cart... The frame was made from a shopping cart I found in a nearby creek. It was chromed!!!

It was no different than a soapbox gravity racer really, except the Maytag would chug you _slowly_ back up the hill for another run.


Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2006, 04:36:22 AM »
so you havent had or worked a listeroid but you can get on your high horse and say we're wrong and dont know what we're doing even though we are running them all day everyday day after day. yes we have break downs some are worse then others. when you get your engine and you run oh say 2000 hours and you know more real time data people might start listening

This post is really and truly nothing more than a diversionary tactic. Internet smoke and mirrors, "look over there not at the facts and material presented, look what I FOUND!!!" (P.S. I am honest, I voluntarily answered and I am not ashamed of the fact I research projects before I start engineering them).

If I quoted you someone on this exact topic who has run Listers from the time he was a kid (and I can)... You would find yet another tactic to dismiss the same factual information. I am giving you the straight up facts. If you researched this yourself, instead of operating on an _opinion_ you would come to the realization that there really and truly are engineering specs for mounting this equipment... It boils down to there being a right way, and a wrong way.

My never having mounted a Lister type or worked one hard for long periods is not really relevent to the facts, it is only relevent to _your_ opinion of them. There are some people that never change opinions, no matter what, and that's a fact too... I am not like that, I make logical decisions based on the best available data, including historicals, engineering guides, and current engineering practices in this instance.

Never mind the fact that the _only_ reason I bothered with the research and education was because I will be operating the engine as a primary power supply where failure will cause grave inconvenience.

As for people using flex mounts... I have no problem with your doing that, it's your engine, your decision, go for it.  At least you should recognize that by three separate standards (historical, manufacturer, and current practice) this is not the best or proper way to mount stationary reciprocating equipment.

"But it works fine" - That is a comeback I have seen before. Great if you _think_ so... I readily recognize and acknowledge that people are doing this. Great.

Putting pennies in old fuse boxes works fine. I would hope someone would speak up if I started telling people that I was doing it and it was cheaper and less work than driving to the hardware store... It works great.


sid

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2006, 04:40:03 AM »
in the fall I go to the state fair for 2 weeks and carry an antique grits mill and my friend carrys a maytag washer/ it is hard to say which creates the most interest/ most people have never seen a gas powered  washer.I was at the engine show in portland ind. and one display was a maytag engine with an axe stuck in the top..sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc

Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2006, 04:51:58 AM »
one display was a maytag engine with an axe stuck in the top..sid

I can sympathize... They are either hard for people to start or impossible for people to start sometimes; you have to learn them. The plugs foul, the starting mixture is not the same as the running mixture, and if it doesn't start right up, the plugs foul. The guy that sold me my engine told me if it did not start in three kicks to not bother with it again until the next day unless I cleaned the plug.

But once you learn to reliably start and run one, 2 cycle engines of any other type are a breeze... A dream to operate. I blue printed a McCulloch engine to run on my racing cart frame and after the compression was raised and the timing advanced, it was nearly as bad as the Maytag... But I had already learned  ;)

xyzer

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2006, 05:09:16 AM »
"Truly, what a person does with their engine on their property is their business. My problem only starts when they go public

Sid ! be carefull at those shows! all those stationary engines running and most folks leave there blockocement at home!

This clearly must be an instance where the human desire and will in some people are completely at odds with the facts.

Show people! what are they thinking! I've heard of boilers going but stationarys?

Oh.... has anyone out there had a mechanical failer due to how it was or wasn't mounted? I would like to know about it. Seriously! I think someone posted that one got away from them on a trial run...it wasn't fastened down..still it wasn't a mechanical failer.
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Rtqii

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2006, 05:56:44 AM »
Some people can't recognize the fact that show engines are not working engines. Show engines get run sure... Most of the time at a lazy idle, as slow as the machine can operate... With no load.

Show engines are not worked for their keep. If they pull loads, they pull for short periods in demonstrations. They have been removed from their mounting blocks and they are transported around for demonstration, not work, purposes.

Go up to any guy with a nice engine at a show and offer them money to belt their engine up to a hearty load and pull it for 2-3 days straight at maximum output. What is he going to tell you to your face?
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 05:58:54 AM by Rtqii »

Guy_Incognito

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2006, 08:51:16 AM »
....It boils down to there being a right way, and a wrong way.....

....I am not like that, I make logical decisions based on the best available data, including historicals, engineering guides, and current engineering practices in this instance.....

As for people using flex mounts... I have no problem with your doing that, it's your engine, your decision, go for it.  At least you should recognize that by three separate standards (historical, manufacturer, and current practice) this is not the best or proper way to mount stationary reciprocating equipment.

"But it works fine" - That is a comeback I have seen before. Great if you _think_ so... I readily recognize and acknowledge that people are doing this. Great.

-  Powered flight is impossible.
-  Man will never break the sound barrier.
-  You cannot mount a Lister on flexible mounts.

(edit: ok, perhaps that's a little glib  ;) )

One never knows until one tries, it seems. We could always stick with the block - a hundred years of sound engineering practice say we should.

I too make logical decisions based on sound engineering practice.There are plenty of examples outside of the now-antique stationary engine arena where large imbalanced reciprocating masses are successfully mounted and isolated using flexible mounts. Vibratory screens are a case in point. Large impeller pumps are another. I say, "Why not apply those principles to stationary engines?"

Don't give me sound engineering reasons why I should stick with the concrete block, give me sound engineering reasons why I shouldn't use flexible mounts. "This is the way it's done and everyone does it this way," isn't a good enough reason not to try.

edit: I was trying to find a general primer on isolation - I've got a few paper copies at work, but I couldn't find anything online. Well, I found one eventually. It's at http://www.wtc.net.cn/Primer_Vibr_Isol.pdf . If anyone's looking into a resilient mount system, read that first to get a general idea of the hows and whys.

And to once again further stoke the fire, I finally found my single mechanical engineering textbook and dusted it off. In it is the formula for calculating the shock load of an object where there is inelastic impact, like an ignition pulse being transferred to an engine block. Shock loads with elastic impact - where the block is allowed to move with the impulse a little, thus allowing the energy to be transferred over a longer time -  are considerably less.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 11:49:23 AM by Guy_Incognito »

sid

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Re: 6/1 and generator setup
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2006, 01:42:08 PM »
I hate to get in everyones fight but almost all small stationary engine were sold with a cart or one was available so the engine could be moved to the work.. it is hard to move your well to the engine//or grain silo or mill///also my mill engine will work belted to the corn mill for 12 days,does that count I know it is inly 5 hp and 900 lbs but I guss that counts and also it is on a trailer...never seen a 1 ton concrete block hauled to an engine show with an engine on it ///sid
15 hp fairbanks morris1932/1923 meadows mill
8 hp stover 1923
8 hp lg lister
1932 c.s bell hammer mill
4 hp witte 1917
5 hp des jardin 1926
3 hp mini petters
2hp hercules 1924
1 1/2 briggs.etc