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Author Topic: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)  (Read 21031 times)

Geno

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 12:26:04 PM »
there has been concern and observation made to the effect of not using any oil with a detergent package on these engines
as it keeps the particulate matter in suspension,
without a full flow filter system this particulate matter makes for a good lapping compound, and wear out your engine

non detergent oils allow for the particulate to settle out as sludge in the bottom of the crankcase.

do they make a non detergent synthetic oil?

also it has been discussed the use of multigrade oil, in that it may not have the sufficient load brg capability, and lead to rod brg flaking

just passin along the info, use as you see fit.

myself i will probably go with 30 weight non detergent winter and 40 weight summer, until i can get a better feel and understanding of the engines actual needs

bob g

I did *some* searching for synthetic 30 or 40 wt oil. I don't remember the brand but the only one I found was a REALLY expensive, detergent type.
Thanks, Geno

aqmxv

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 02:45:51 PM »
The only Syn oil I've found that's anywhere close to what a non-full-flow filtered listeroid might need is the 60 wt Amsoil racing oil.  It might be worth consideration in a hot climate with a bypass filter after break in.  Otherwise, the viscosity is probably too high for most people, and they don't put a lot of detail in about the additive package, other than to say it's appropriate for air-cooled motorcycles - which, incidentally, means it has plenty of zddp for the motorcycle gearboxes.

Frankly, given the temperatures and pressures involved in any listeroid, getting oil to the bearing is the hard part.  If you've accomplished that, the areas and loads just aren't that extreme.
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slowspeed1953

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2006, 03:43:34 PM »

aqmxv

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2006, 05:21:05 PM »
http://www.renewablelube.com/

Peace&Love :D, Darren

The racing lube is interesting stuff.  Might be OK for a broken-in listeroid, but the lubricity and film-forming (they mention polar attraction and GL3 EP properties on the data sheet) might be too good for break-in, as is the case with synthetics.

A question I'd have to ask is:  does it biodegrade if I leave it in the crankcase too long?

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slowspeed1953

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2006, 06:24:48 PM »
Quote
A question I'd have to ask is:  does it biodegrade if I leave it in the crankcase too long?

Good question the short anwser being no.

When you say "biodegrade" I think you mean oxidize. The amount of certain acids is what inhibits or promotes oxidation.

Vegetable oils with high levels of linolic acid rapidly oxidize.

On the contrary are vegetable oils with high levels of oliec acid which are very resistant to oxidation hense making them more thermally stable and outgas less weight per volume, making them even more thermally stable and loose even less weight from outgassing than convential petrolium/synthetic lubracants. (ie use less oil)


For example looking at linseeed oil it has a very high concentration of linoic acid which actually causes the oil to oxidize, thats why it has its drying properties and would not make a good crankcase lube as it would gum up.

A better example is high oliec acid canola oil or even olive oils as they are very thermally stable and resist oxidization (gumming) they are very resistant to airation and shear.

Peace&Love :D, Darren


buickanddeere

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2006, 12:58:38 AM »
  In any case the coolant temps have to be kept at 195F plus and 220 is better. It's difficult to get the oil warm enough in either Lister or in a two cylinder deere. Unless the oil is warmed up to near 212F. The water and unburned fuel that makes it's way into the crankcase will not be evaported away at low temps. Also a cold running engine drops more unburned fuel and water into the crankcase than a hot engine.
  I echo the remarks on ring seating and cold weather drag in gear boxes. My GN burned oil until about 75,000 miles before she broke in the rings. Didn't burn oil for the next 150,000 miles. A quality synthetic SAE90wt at 32F is not as viscous as a mineral Sae 90wt.
  As for a "quality" sythetic oil? Most are not made from true synthetic stock but are just reformed mineral oil. Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Lubrication Engineers and Amsoil are the only ones I know of for certain. Lubrcation Engineers will even mix a blend just for your application.
  As previously stated, dodge the wide span  mutli weights like 5W50 etc. 5W30,10W30 & 15W-40 are about as far as you want to go.
  Oil viscosity required depends on the bearing journal dia, width, loading and clearance. In short, a tight sleeve bearing requires thin oil and wide clearances require thicker oil.
  The shaft/journal rides on a wedge of oil, not unlike a surfboarder on the ocean. Too narrow clearances and too thick oil = no decent wedge. Too wide clearances and too thin oil = no decent oil wedge. In any case the bearing/journal life is shortened.
  Many a small 3600 rpm splash lube engine has went "bang" due to too thick or too thin oil because the operator didn't read or believe the engineers who designed the engine.       

Ironworks

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Re: Here is the only oil for your lister!! (Or any other Engine)
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2007, 11:55:44 PM »
If you are talking about grabbing a flywheel and pulling toward and away from you, there is a tolerance for that.  I'm afraid I have forgotten what it is.  i'm sure someone will chime in.  You correct it by using paper shims or joints to shim out the crankshaft main bearing housing.  If you have alot of play there you may also have play on the rod.  Grab it and see if it will move side to side on the crankshaft.  There are shims for it as well. 

Change of subject;  I have been reading this thread and I would like to point out that diesel truck engine manufacturers recommend NOT using synthetic oils until you have at leas 70,000 miles on the engine.  You could convert that to hours for the Lister.  The synthetic oil is to slick to break the engine in. In fact it nearly eliminates engine wear.   Once the engine is broke in and you switch to synthetic,  it stops engine wear.  I use sythetic oil in my Cummins.  I can start it on the coldest days without plugging it in.  It revs quicker also.  I think it is a good oil to use.  I intend to use it on my genset as soon as I get a filter system set up.  As far as 40% HP increase?  I think a study would have to be done.  Thats a pretty big increase.  That makes a 6/1 a 9/1 , almost.  I don't think my Cummins had a 40% increase but it is noticable.