New to the Forum with a CS 12-2 in Portugal

[Portugal lister]

I think i have to re size my photos or they get blocked.
This the crank centre main cap.

[Portugal lister]

Left, number 1 big end, cap was hard to slide down so did not completely remove it as, crank journal looks perfect and could see no scoring on the lower shell.

[sirpedrosa]

Alex, gentles

Oh my!! Holy moly!

After all there was a witche inside cranckcase!

Pay attention:

1 - got to buy a 28MM spanner and cut it half;

2 - there is no room for a torque wrench - hence I told you to make a dot at nuts;

3 - Peter Forbes enlighten to imperial diameter and grade (lbs/inch, but your arm will feel when is enough) in several threads (in this case bolt from upper crankcase till bottom cap bush);

4 - "Caralho" is the right word to help things to come off. But one beer or a good meal of "bacalhau à lagareiro" with a strong white or tinto will prevent things to snap. And the whistle doesnt need any word.

4a - Tea doesn't help. That was been a beverage taken to UK by a Portuguese Queen.

5 - I dont have fancy brake bar (now I have cause of Deutz, see it too), therefore in that time got to hunt with the cat;

6 - Mic the journal and see if it need to reground, and bring new shells from HM land; Otherwise soften and new shells.

7 - Use some pic soft resizer. I use MS pic Manager and put all at 800px wide (after cutting them to the area I want);

Thats all for now.

Seen the vids... 1 image worth 1k words.

Keep the good job.

Cheers
VP


PS: 2 pair of shells!! thats life. But there is only a few people to take care of this HM engines.

[Portugal lister]

Right side number 2 stamped big end cap came off easier but had one decent score in it, not very deep and no sharpness to it in the bearing, the crank journal showed this mark but unable to feel it with my fingernail.

As the whole purpose of doing this was to double check before i ran it again after finding all the rubbish in the sump i feel happier to run it tomorrow morning.

If anyone has some input on the state of the bearings and crank centre bush i would appreciate your wisdom.

The amount of bearing/bush material in the sump was not good, i have much more i scraped out of the sump but did not show the photos, now i wonder is it the crank end bushes, but felt very little movement today when checked. but i did feel some side to side movement but unaware of any specs.

If anyone has a link to a guide on rebuilding one of these i would be very grateful and would save me pestering you all with a million posts

[sirpedrosa]

Alex, Gentles,

IMMO, nº 1 is done with craks in babbit (hence the slake), and nº 2 also, but melted. (Or the opposite)

Take care of it first before put it on again. You dont put a sick person working before getting better.

Just my 5 cents.

Cheers
VP

[Portugal lister]

Alex, gentles

Oh my!! Holy moly!

After all there was a witche inside cranckcase!

So you dont like the look of the witche in the middle ??

Pay attention:

1 - got to buy a 28MM spanner and cut it half; My large ratchet worked well and my arm is a pretty good Torque wrench...... and a good Portuguese saying, do it up tight, just before it breaks

2 - there is no room for a torque wrench - hence I told you to make a dot at nuts; I marked them just to be sure

3 - Peter Forbes enlighten to imperial diameter and grade (lbs/inch, but your arm will feel when is enough) in several threads (in this case bolt from upper crankcase till bottom cap bush);
I am a little confused but the reference to "E" it says, big end nuts, reference "E"..... at "E" it says bolt size 1/2" ... but my socket that fit like a glove was 13.16ths..... they also got the arm torque setting and all turns smoothly

4 - "Caralho" is the right word to help things to come off. But one beer or a good meal of "bacalhau à lagareiro" with a strong white or tinto will prevent things to snap. And the whistle doesnt need any word.
These phrases, among many other things are why i love your country so much, im just having a nice glass of chilled green 

4a - Tea doesn't help. That was been a beverage taken to UK by a Portuguese Queen.Another of the reasons about Portugal

5 - I dont have fancy brake bar (now I have cause of Deutz, see it too), therefore in that time got to hunt with the cat;
From what i see your cat hunts well, who needs a big dog on these wonderful machines

6 - Mic the journal and see if it need to reground, and bring new shells from HM land; Otherwise soften and new shells.Sadly i think, with so much to do on the farm before i leave i think i will have to do that on my return, also the engine is filthy and i need to remove some of the cooling pipes for better acess

7 - Use some pic soft resizer. I use MS pic Manager and put all at 800px wide (after cutting them to the area I want);got it

Thats all for now.

Seen the vids... 1 image worth 1k words.

Keep the good job.

Cheers
VP


PS: 2 pair of shells!! thats life. But there is only a few people to take care of this HM engines. i was expecting much worse, i will replace all bearings just to be sure everything is good, after all she is used as designed, 5 hour runs, i want the best for her

Thanks again

[Portugal lister]

I really appreciate your time and replies Valdemar.

Ok so you think i should not run her...... i a was a little concerned but after your comment i am now more concerned to run it now... but i really need water on the farm .

If i had not thought to check the oil i would have run it again, the other day it sounded very good running and i am always listening for knocking etc.

What to do 

Alex, Gentles,

IMMO, nº 1 is done with craks in babbit (hence the slake), and nº 2 also, but melted. (Or the opposite)

Take care of it first before put it on again. You dont put a sick person working before getting better.

Just my 5 cents.

[Portugal lister]

So through desperate need of water and against Valdemar's advice, i ran the pump on slightly less RPM's and she ran fine, no knocking or other sounds. And we now have a filled water tank, so the filled water tank gives me about 1 month before the Lister will be needed again.
I have emailed Stationary engine parts in the UK and had a reply, they will send parts out to me but my worry is the Portuguese customs, i have had problems with them before and also the added import taxes on top of the parts cost.

Is there a place for good quality Lister parts in Europe ??

All the best

[sirpedrosa]

Alex, Gentles

I got same issues with custums (Theys will shut anything from HM lands)

Ill rather by a ticket from Easyjet or RayanAir to get them from source. Its cheaper!

Remember this is a splash journals not pumped oil. Big Journal will not be happy!

Just my 5 cents.

Cheers
VP

PS: take a look at Realdiesels.com (got my decoke set them)

[Portugal lister]

Afternoon Valdemar,
I was just sat here looking at flight prices and saw your reply.

Plans have changed a little so it look like i will be going to the UK in about 2-3 weeks anyway and i will be there some months, i have a Mercedes 230sl restoration to finish, so i now want to get the Lister fixed before i leave, this will also mean i dont have to run her again which makes me feel so much better.

I think i prayed to every know god under the sun while she ran yesterday.

Problem i have now is not wanting to fly to the UK this week only to do it all over again in another 10 days or so.
With Customs how much longer did the postage take, i will have to except their crazy taxes i think.

I checked out realdiesels website, is there any reason you bought from them and not S.E.P in UK?

[sirpedrosa]

Alex, Gentles

Dont mess with customs. They will charge 23% TVA+ carrier fee to take package to customs. All thing get triple price from store.

Bought from Realdiesels because of price. In that time UK still was at EU. Bought decalcs from SEP, and decoke set to Realdiesels.

Sleeman is prohibitive.

Cheers
VP

PS: bought also 2 NOS valves fort the 12/2.

[Portugal lister]

Oh that is depressing news but not unexpected, Brexit has caused us all a lot of problems.

Thanks again for your info, now i have to work out a way to get parts here.

When i go to the UK i will be there a few months, are you ok to wait for the decals you wanted?... if you need them faster it is ok with me and i can still look at the screws you wanted and bring on my return.

I also wanted to ask if you know of any other manuals for the Engine?, i have the Instruction book  and parts list Book 103/666. Are there any others available, google brings me nothing.

All the best
Alex

[Portugal lister]

Well after many emails and phone calls to any Lister parts suppliers  i eventually found this place in Poland, https://listerpetter.com.pl/en/offer/parts 

Just waiting on a reply to see if they have the parts i need in stock, if they have and postage is not too slow as he said it might be, i will remove the heads and check valves and guides and piston rings and also small end bushes to see if i need to order anything else from them before i place my order.

With the fuel pumps, is it normally just the element that causes the leak or is there something else i should be ordering for the fuel pumps, without renewing everything that is probably not necessary.


my parts list so far..

big end bearings
all Crankshaft bushes
2 fuel pump elements
2 crankshaft felt seals
full gasket set

[sirpedrosa]

Hi Alex, Gentles (to be kind to all members)

Yes, Ill wait for decals. For me its more important the relation ship with people (specially LEF members) rather some days of waiting for stuff.

Already tell you I found BSF screws at CORREIAS'S PARAFUSOS (https://correiaparafusos.pt/) but stock is getting short. And very expensive.

Found in 12/2 folder some more stuff from Peter Forbes (attached);

Cheers
VP

PS: Last representative of Lister Petter was Pinto&Cruz at Porto. I think no longer. Id made a very deep search (2018) of any parts here but no joy at all. Several companies by time where representative of Lister and Petter within most significants where thows whom made olive oil plants. End point is... there is no longer HM representative of good old cast iron machinery.

PS2: End up to make my own paper gaskets, because paper they sent was not flexoid (oil resistent);

PS3: had you disassemble IPs? Cant belive they are leaking that bad.

[Portugal lister]

Good Morning all

Valdemar, firstly, thank you for the documents, it is nice to have and i appreciate your time in sending them to me!

Well i got my reply from the Polish company..... it is Lister Petter parts but his prices are prohibitive, 1 gasket set =  657-10432 JOINT SET -  € 171,65 

Speaking with S.E.P he sells on Spanish Ebay,.. often when i have bought items with import tax paid in final price to Ebay or Amazon they pass through Customs without issue as is already paid..... So i think, other than flying back to the HM land  i will try to purchase through Ebay.es... (the parts still come from UK)

To answer your points

PS1; I can believe there is no one left in Portugal, i have a plate on my engine from Original supplier, i will take a photo later to show out of interest.

PS2; If the gaskets are poor quality i will make my own, it is often the same with many 'quality' classic car parts, high prices for low quality... a shame!

PS3; No i have not opened the IP's.

When i first noticed the rising oil level, about 8 years ago we only used the Lister maybe once a year. so i would let it run out of fuel or after stopping the engine i would close the fuel tap.
 it is only in the last 2 years we have been using her more often and turn off the engine immediately the water tanks are full...... and changed the oil more regularly than 250 hours!

Only in the last month i have seen one IP leaking a small amount from the oval window.
After changing the engine oil a few days ago, i cleaned the IP element through the oval window and oiled it, now it seems to have stopped..., externally.
(When i drained the engine oil I got about 8 litres from the sump and it was thin and a little smell of Diesel )

BUT this time i opened the air bleed screw on the this IP and i noticed very tiny brass pieces coming out with the fuel 

I will report back later on my failure/success with Ebay

All the best
Alex

P.S i thought you might find it interesting, my Grandfather worked for the government after ww2 and was responsible for discovering rare art and restoring it.
He personally discovered many hidden painting on walls inside the Tower of London and used to visit Buckingham palace to personally restore many of the late Queens paintings.

Here he is in the Tower of London 

https://www.alamy.com/medieval-painting-discovered-in-tower-of-london-a-close-up-of-a-specialist-craftsman-of-the-ministry-of-works-mr-henley-g-blake-intent-upon-his-intricate-task-of-uncovering-the-14th-century-mural-discovered-in-the-tower-of-london-during-repairs-to-the-structure-of-the-byward-tower-at-the-tower-of-london-it-was-found-that-the-main-beam-carrying-the-second-floor-above-the-gateway-had-painted-decoration-mostly-in-gold-this-decoration-included-leopard-of-england-many-times-repeated-in-gold-with-red-tongues-fleur-de-lis-and-small-birds-all-over-the-beam-february-8-1954-photo-by-fox-image471436367.html