Puppeteer

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91
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by veggie on June 11, 2020, 09:07:45 PM »
Glort,
In your first video your burner tube was quite long compared to many others on the net.
I think this is actually a benefit because the fuel burns more completely while contained.
If the tube were to be used for space heating it would make sense to make the tube even longer and have a fully burned exhaust exit the end.
One idea is to run a tube the full length of a shed or garage and exit out the wall with a screen and rain cap.
Basically a tube type ifrared heater.
Nice work !
92
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by glort on June 11, 2020, 01:52:48 PM »

I have thought of using a diesel injector/ Pump. Got a set of injectors and an IP from an OM 617 Up the back.  An injector pump takes about 2 Hp to turn over and even slowed  will take at least 1 HP.
I have wondered how an injector would go when driven from a power steering pump. Only about 1000 PSI instead of 20, 000 but don't need Micro fine mist for this like in an engine. The oil won't have to in effect spontaneously combust, the burn chamber will be plenty hot already.

Might be possible to just use the injector nozzle and remove the internal springs so it sprays continually, not cycles.
If one used an injector out of something like a China diesel with low flow rate, may be possible to get a low enough output.
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Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by AdeV on June 11, 2020, 09:23:23 AM »
Seems to me diesel fuel injectors could be used to provide a high pressure spray for a relatively moderate power input. Snag one from an old diesel car from a local scrapyard, drive it with an electric motor instead of the engine, and arrange the injectors/pipes to taste in your burner module. Sure, it'd pulse, unless you spun the pump fast enough that the oil from the previous injector was only just finishing its burn before the next injection.
94
Things I want to Buy / Re: PETTERS UNIVERSAL "M" TYPE OIL ENGINE
« Last post by magneto man on June 11, 2020, 03:49:01 AM »
Thank you, yes we may have to resort to that but, the latter comment is the reason to try  to try. Authenticity!!

Cheers
95
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by glort on June 11, 2020, 01:03:17 AM »

You say that a Bilge Blower might work for smaller units.
I have a 12vdc blower that might work for mine.
Is this what you had in mind?

First of all, what design are you trying to make?
If you are doing a draft burner, you don't need a blower. If you do want to do a forced air Version, that is a fan, not a blower. Not trying to be a pedantic bastard but there IS a difference. A Fan will move a volume of air but with no pressure to speak of. A blower ( even little toy ones)  Will move less air but with some ( small) Pressure.  It's important because a fan won't push air down a pipe well. A blower will do it a lot better.  Blowers are generally impeller or scroll designs not a fan blade.  My first decent burner used a car AC/ demister blower and that worked well.

If you only want  2-5 even KW, I would do a draft type.  A forced air will be Very critical IMHO. Not saying it can't be done, just I believe a draft type will be easier for what you want.

This is the Blower i use. as you can see in the vid, it's capable of supplying a lot more air than 2-3 Kw requires.
I have thought about necking  it down to a 1" Pipe and making a vertical burner out of heavy gauge metal to retain the heat the same as I used in this design.  I would make the burner itself Fairly deep so the air inlet extended down and would pre heat. the oil is fed in the air pipe and when these are running well you get vapor coming out which ignites as soon as it leaves the air Pipe so would do will at low output. One would of course have to throttle the air right down so there was minimal excess air.  The air cools the oil so it needs to match the fuel burn so as not to over cool.
You can get a lot of variation in output with fuel on a large burner but as you get to lesser outputs the margin of course gets a lot finer.


Yes a heat store does require more " complexity" But I believe gives more benefit.  It's like a car. You can have a model T that will get you places, eventually.  You can't tow with it, you have to get out and start the engine by hand, set the timing, Prime the oil, etc.
A modern car has more complexity like high and low beam headlights, turn the key to activate the starter motor, has a Demister, a Distributor or computer that does the timing, a water pump so the engine can work harder and not over heat, a  cabin Heater, 4 wheel Disk brakes with anti lock, ..... and so it goes. Much more complicated but you get a lot of benefits.
Trick is not to build something like a damn Mercedes that every time I get in the thing I feel intimidated even after 3 years with all the gadgets etc that don't really add much to the experience over my much cheaper cars.

That said, You want this for a greenhouse  so you can keep it simple. Last year for my greenhouse I just had a 100L of water in a drum heated by an element connected to solar panels.  It radiated the heat very well and the plants were still at 15oC even when the outside temp was -5.

Quote
Being that I have never built one before I decided to go very small.

IMHO, going very small is MUCH harder than doing a 200KW burner.

The problem with low output burners gets to 2 Things, Fuel metering and heat retention. I'm sure both can be over come, maybe it's just that I have put a lot more effort into doing things for heating swimming pools ( effectively) and melting metal. I have usually ridiculously overpowered furnaces as well but going small -I- see as a bigger Challenge.

For me, Building a 30Kw Burner that I could batch fire would be a lot easier than building a burner that did say 3 KW constant.
I have thought of Building one of these burners and use an Old 60-100L Gas tank and weld the flue right through the centre and fill the thing with water. Fire the Burner, get the water up to temp and shut down. I would circulate the water but for your purpose,  You could just have the tank, maybe partially insulated  to reduce the heat radiation and make it last longer , and have it sit there.  Add a Circulation air fan to the green house to keep the air temp even same as they have in commercial greenhouses and have another fan on a thermostat blowing on the tank. When the temp drops, fan comes on, blows the warm air off the tank faster and heats the space.
No pumps or radiator required, just a small fan and an $8 Thermostat board off Scambay.

You could also just get a water heater tank I spose and partially peel the insulation off.  Those tanks are pretty thin and can be hard to weld as all but you probably have a lot better welding skills than I. Light gauge metal and I don't work well together. Also some water tanks are Vitreous lined so that can add complication.  Gas heated tanks already have the flue through the Middle so if you have them where you are that makes it easier still. Just remove some of the insulation from the top, put on a header tank  for the water to keep the main tank full and eliminate pressurisation and you are there.

No idea what you are growing but last year with my little greenhouse I discovered that the plants I was growing ( Tomatoes, cucumber various Veges and a bunch of hedge cuttings) didn't care about the temp. I had it up to 40 oC regularly in there  and as long as the HUMIDITY was high, they were really happy.  The heat without the Humidity was a very different thing.  Don't know what the books say, haven't read up on them but from what I saw, temp control wasn't very critical at all. I tried to keep them above 15 because below 12oC they stop Photosynthesis apparently but they did well much warmer as long as the humidity was high. With the open tank I had with just a bit of a shelf on the top which was far from airtight, that wasn't a problem at all.  When the weather warmed up and I took the tank out and the sun got up to even 35 with no added humidity, the plants wilted and didn't like it one bit.

I lost a few when it did warm up which pissed me off. Managed to keep summer plants thriving through the sub freezing temps of winter and lost them in much warmer weather and at lesser temps than the greenhouse had been at because I removed the Humidity.
A nasty trap for the new players in the game.

A burner in the greenhouse if you have one big enough partially venting into the greenhouse will also increase the CO2 Levels which all commercial greenhouses do to aid plant growth.  Like putting a human patient on Oxygen.



3kw on oil is 5Ml a minute. One could use a pump through a fine orifice like a MIG Tip to stop the flow rate down but one would also want a filter on the inlet because it's easy to block small passages.  You also need to be VERY conscious  of keeping the thing hot so the oil will phase change to a gas so it can burn.


No, I only use a nozzle on one of my designs, the spray burner which I don't like. Every thing else just comes out the pipe and straight into the burner. My burners work on heat retention in the burner itself to create the phase change of the oil. Spray Burners work on reducing the droplet size to make the oil easier to phase change just in the hot atmosphere.


Nobox Bob Drives me insane with his Vids. There is SO much incorrect information in them I have to stop watching at times. Makes me want to scream at what he goes on with which is so much BS. The guy talks like a professor but literally can't spell basic words and after all this time, he STILL does not really get the principals of what is involved even though he used to ask me endless questions about my vids.

He likes the spray type Burners which I think are a total wank TBH. Not just his but all of them.  Talking about complexity, you need to make or buy expensive Nozzles and run a compressor, ( he just bought some huge petrol powered thing and still runs out of air)  and put all this energy in to making a fire.  I can make just as big or bigger output that going by his vids, will burn a lot cleaner and more reliably and uses a fraction of the power input and certainly a fraction of the cost of equipment with an old Blower over a big compressor.

I built a spray Burner which I believe he copied But I saw little advantage with it. Mine didn't even use the special and problematic air/ Fuel Nozzle, I just built mine out of std Copper Fittings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SXKMRSIyPU&t=1s

This Vid shows the screw together Plumbing parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW1odjaM8w8

I might do another spray Burner if I get enthused enough to get back into this now I'm not feeling as depressed  for the moment anyway and might be able to do something entertaining again but I will do it with high pressure fuel not compressed air.  That way you run a pump and maybe a blower and that is it. No compressor thumping away and using a fortune in power. I think the fuel spray could be set up to induce enough draft air anyway.
96
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by veggie on June 10, 2020, 04:40:59 PM »
This is an interesting design using mostly standard pipe fittings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t38BwALhPk
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Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by veggie on June 10, 2020, 04:24:34 PM »
GLORT:  Yes, I have done draft burners out of pots before but this is much more versatile. It's easier to design in heat retention for low power operation.

So you don't have a burn pot?
Does your little pump supply a spray nozzle? or does it drip into a burner of some sort?
98
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by veggie on June 10, 2020, 04:22:25 PM »

Being that I have never built one before I decided to go very small.
A tiny unit should be easier to build for me.
I was thinking of using 2" or 3" diameter thread pipe and fittings, but maybe I can locate some square tubing.
Lots to think about.
I like your idea of building it slightly larger and then storing the heat. But that involves more piping and pumps and storage and heat exchange.
For the first one I would like 2kw - 4kw that I can tinker and perfect.
99
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by veggie on June 10, 2020, 04:17:07 PM »

You say that a Bilge Blower might work for smaller units.
I have a 12vdc blower that might work for mine.
Is this what you had in mind?
100
Waste Vegetable Oil / Re: New waste oil Burner.
« Last post by glort on June 10, 2020, 04:14:37 PM »
I believe the standard design is to drip the oi into a burn pot.
Like the bottom cut off a soup can (but heavier gauge metal).

Yes, I have done draft burners out of pots before but this is much more versatile. It's easier to design in heat retention for low power operation.

Quote
Glort, I will be watching your project intently. I was also thinking of building a mini oil burner for greenhouse heating.
In my case a 2kw (6830 btu) version would be perfect.

Something out of 40 or 50mm tube may work but at 2 Kw you are only burning 200Ml of oil an hour. That's like a big oil lamp!
For that sort of output myself I'd be looking at going another way.  Do a decent power burn that's much easier to manage like say 20Kwand store the heat in a water heater and bleed off as needed. Thermostat control would be very easy  to do a solar water heating pump and a fan to kick in when needed.  Might even thermo Syphon through the radiator.

200l of water heated to 80oC and taken down to 20oC is about 14 KWh of heat energy.  At 2 KW hr, that's say 6 hours heating.  Double the water and you have plenty of heating reserve.
Other way would be a larger heater and just have the thermostat Dump excess heat out the greenhouse.  Free fuel so why worry?

I might try a really small heater. Could go miniature in 30mm Box.  I can't see why it wouldn't work although the fuel metering will need to get precise.

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