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Messages - BruceM

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2926
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 08, 2006, 12:01:20 AM »
Some info:  the extension ring needed to insert a thermostat switch (3/8 NPT is the most common) is 2.5" OD, about 1.5-1.75" ID.  This would have to be machined, and I don't have access to a metal lathe.

There is a flat spot on the head right above the hot water outlet, perhaps this could be drilled and tapped? 

Since this flat spot on the head is so near the coolant, another thought is to use an adjustable snap disk epoxy'd or siiliconed to the head.  Graingers 4E120 has a range of 210 to 250 F, $19.40.

Any thoughts about using head temperature instead of coolant???

Bruce

2927
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 07, 2006, 03:51:12 PM »
Copybell, what did you use for the extension between the head and flange?

Bruce

2928
Lister Based Generators / Re: Growling ST 3000 Watt generator head
« on: January 07, 2006, 03:36:06 PM »
Thanks Jim.  I did have the "dog house" wiring set to 120 for load testing.  That was well covered in the ST manual.

Bruce

2929
Lister Based Generators / Re: Growling ST 3000 Watt generator head
« on: January 07, 2006, 05:18:07 AM »
Gentlemen, My sincere thanks for your sage wisdom and advice.  I'll pull the bearings and check them out carefully.

I was hoping to get a 3KW PM generator from George B soon, he's got 120volt ones now, but I need the 220 volt which is still in the works.

Bruce

2930
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 07, 2006, 05:02:22 AM »
Thanks for the link, Scott.  Mac Mcquaid's extension on the upper coolant flange looks like just what I need to mount the thermostat switch.  I'll pull my flange tomorrow and take some measurements.  Wish  I had a metal lathe!

Thanks for temp switch tip, kyradawg.

I ordered the 12v fuel shut off valve from Greasel today.  If it works as well as pinching the hose, my remote/auto shutdown situation is halfway there.

Bruce

2931
Listeroid Engines / Re: Compression adjustment for 5600 feet elevation?
« on: January 07, 2006, 04:42:16 AM »
Thanks Steve and Quin,
I'll look through my Meto manual and see what the spec is for my head clearance.
Any idea how many mils I should reduce it for my 5600 ft elevation?

The turbo is interesting, but a complex solution since pressurized oil is needed for it.  I think I'd rather keep it simple and add some propane into the intake manifold when the rack hits a certain point if I need more power.  I've attempted to downsize my demands to only 4 hp, so should be OK.

From my '85 Mercedes 300D experience here at 6000 ft, I'd say this elevation is like reducing the starting temperature 18 degrees.  I like the early reports on George B's new glow plug, and I'll probably get one soon.  The fast (faster than me) cranking speed of the air starter is also a big help on a cold morning.

Bruce

2932
Listeroid Engines / Compression adjustment for 5600 feet elevation?
« on: January 06, 2006, 11:34:03 PM »
I wonder if the Lister 6/1 compression can be adjusted for my site at 5600 feet elevation?

Bruce

2933
Lister Based Generators / Growling ST 3000 Watt generator head
« on: January 06, 2006, 11:30:21 PM »
My ST 3000 watt head makes a strange grrrr noise when loaded.  It increases with load.  It's loud enough to mask some of the engine mechanical noises.  The unit does not run hot, and the output is good under load.  I did not repack the bearings yet, but they feel smooth.

Any thoughts about the source of this sound?  Could it be the "dog house"?

Bruce

2934
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 06, 2006, 11:20:29 PM »
Scott- I agree the over temp switch before the thermostat would be best, but I was reluctant to
bore into the water jacket.  I'll have to look into that.  Saving the engine from a stuck thermostat makes a lot of sence.

Thanks for the temperature advise!

Bruce

2935
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 06, 2006, 03:41:37 PM »
Scott, Thanks for the great source.  Their temperature switches look like just what I need.

Suggestions for an appropriate temperature (over temp shut down) for a switch mounted in the upper coolant pipe just after the thermostat would be appreciated.  I'll be operating the engine at 5600 ft elevation on 50/50 antifreeze and about 5 psi pressure.  I was thinking the 225 degree 1/4" NPT unit would be about right, but maybe that's too high for such low pressure.

Bruce


2936
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 06, 2006, 01:47:59 AM »
N2toh, I was also dubious about a fuel shutoff valve, but pinching off the rubber hose just before the IP does in fact work, immediately; no more injector clank, no more firing, instantly. There is no run on, the pump is not run dry, it just cavitates from lack of fuel in. 

If I let the engine coast to almost stopping, releasing the pinch on the hose (needle nose vise grips are invaluable as hose closers) immediately restarts the engine on the next compression stroke. So there isn't air getting in the IP, and it shouldn't adversely affect the next start up.

I asked George B's opinion on the matter and he thought there was probably no harm done to the IP. 

Thanks for the offer of the electric door lock mechanism, though.  That was very thoughful!

Binnie, I couldn't follow your link to anything like a steam whistle. A steam whistle radiator cap (blows when venting excess pressure) is such a neat idea, I wonder if someone makes them?!

Bruce







2937
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 05, 2006, 05:42:40 PM »
Scott, Yes, I would put the solenoid release for the governor spring at the fixed end.  This is a good location, vibration wise, and the governor ends up doing the shut down work for you.  You have to design an easy to build trigger release mechanism via door solenoid and share it here!

Other thoughts:  if the shut down is only for overtemp/low oil emergency shut down, just put a slow blow fuse on it.  Then it will turn itself off, no latching turn off relay or timer relay required.  A more crazy thought:  if you use a starter solenoid (high current DC contactor) triggered by your overtemp and/or oil sensor, you could use a "fuseable wire" to hold the spring, and just "blow it" with the starter solenoid; no mechanical solenoid required.  The wire holder could be a screw terminal strip of some sort.

For my application, I am going with a fuel shut off valve right before the IP.  This makes remote/hands off starting easier if down the road my MS should make that neccessary. (No spring trigger to reset.)  For my application the fuel shut off valve does require a timer relay or a 555 timer and power Mosfet circuit to hold fuel off long enough for the engine to coast to a stop, since I need a normally open valve.  I don't want to drain the battery holding the valve open when I'm only pumping air and not running the generator head.

Bruce




2938
Listeroid Engines / Re: Auto Shut Down
« on: January 05, 2006, 04:30:39 AM »
Thanks, kyradawg, Summit does have some kick ass solenoids. Here's a 35 lb pull one:

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=door+pull+solenoid&x=0&y=0&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp

They also have nitrous vavles which could be used as a fuel shutoff.

And thanks for the brake fluid sensor suggestion, too.

Best Wishes,
Bruce

2939
Update on two items:
Releasing the governor spring on my 6/1 does a nice fast shutdown, no extra spring required. The governor pushes the rack all the way in immediately and it stays there.  A solenoid release for this spring attachment at the engine block seems like the best spring powered approach- no overpowering of the governor spring needed.

Pinching off the fuel line within a few inches of the injection pump (IP) causes an immediate shut down (fast as above).  It apparently causes immediate cavitaton and no fuel.  Greasel sells a 12VDC fuel line valve (FSV 1 $38.50) which could be used:
http://www.greasel.com/Individual-Components.html

Pinching off the fuel line before the fuel filter doesn't work, the fuel line must be closed just before the IP.

I'll have to sleep on it but a solenoid type valve seems to win the KISS prize, and could do remote starting for me someday if needed.

Steve-
Try a bleed screw on your new banjo- it really works great.  Air comes out- IP starts working nicely without complaint.  On my IP otherwise, the banjo bolt must be loosened or the IP cavitates (the side bleed screw is not effective), but then there is some air that must be pumped out the hard way.
I filed a flat spot on George's brass fitting, drilled and tapped for an 8/32 screw, filed a flat on one side of the threads to allow better bleed air path, and use a small O ring for a gasket( till I can find something better).

Best Wishes,
Bruce




2940
I believe the best option for solenoid triggered, spring powered shut down is to have a solenoid release the governor spring, adding very light spring between the mounting bolt on the IP to the linkage arm to assist in holding the rack closed when the engine speed is nearly zip.

That said, I'm wondering if a solenoid valve in the fuel supply line would do the trick?  This would be a nice simple solution that would lend itself better to auto starts.

Will closing the fuel line before the filter result in a fairly fast shut down?

Bruce

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