Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - rgroves

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]
121
Lister Based Generators / Re: Cogen would this work?
« on: January 16, 2006, 04:24:48 AM »
While you could reduce the power consumption that way, you would also increase the recovery time for the water heater.  If you have a household that uses a lot of hot water, the last person to take a (cold) shower might not appreciate your project's contribution.

On the other hand, if your water heater never gets behind the demand curve, having a lower power draw could make it within the reach of your 6/1. 

Just don't expect the family to change its hot water usage, at least without grumbling about it.

My approach, which is probably overkill, is that I bought a Bock oil-fired water heater which will take the place of my electric.  It will also make radiant hot water heat possible in my house.  And (this is where it gets a little over the top)  I will make at least a portion of my oil for that heater by pressing canola into vegetable oil with my oilseed press, then converting it to crude biodiesel.  Water heaters aren't as finicky as engines about the quality of the fuel.  Of course I'll also be able to power my generator with veggie oil too.

Hi All,
I have a (probably really dumb :-[) question:
(I would like to have a fairly high draw electric load to apply, and for the sake of "Domestic Tranquility" ;D, I want to find a way for my little "project" ::) to contribute to the "house".)
Can a regular 40 gal. hot water heater be "re-wired" so as to reduce the watt load ???.
Mostly, they seem to be 4500w @240v which is way too much for a 6/1.
What if  I disconnect the upper element, and jumper the lower thermostat and feed just one side (the lower element) controlled by the upper thermostat ???. Will this scenario cut the kw draw in half ???( a more manageable 2250w load).

Kevin



122
Lister Based Generators / Re: DC alternator
« on: January 14, 2006, 08:06:58 PM »
I think the MPPT charge controller would be a great way to go.  Ability to feed much higher voltage would let you use common (and cheap) PM motors, as you say, and these controllers can take a lot of amps. You could combine with PV or wind inputs too, using one controller. 

On the negative side, they are also fairly expensive.

Hello PC,

I wonder if the most effient way to charge batteries with a Listeroid would be to get some thing like a 90 VDC PM motor (these are common) and drive it from the engine. Then feed the unregulated DC into a MPPT solar battery charge controler like an Outback MX60. You could then charge different voltage battery banks just by changeing settings on the charge controler.

What do you think?

Tom

123
Lister Based Generators / Re: DC alternator
« on: January 13, 2006, 01:46:11 AM »
I haven't tried this, but I've been thinking hard about it.
The Etek motor, now out of production but still available, is a top quality PM unit that can be driven at up to 48 volts. with continuous current output of more than 100 amps.  It runs at a relatively low 72 rpm per volt  Its efficiency is much higher than most motors.
Check out http://www.specialtyvehiclesonline.com/eprints/briggsandstratton.htm and note the statement that this motor would be an excellent generator.
You could feed batteries directly, through a diode, as long as the output voltage was within the bulk charging range of the batteries.  or use a good charge controller, and treat it like any DC source.

I agree that an alternator combined with a Xantrex inverter would be the ideal situation, but this is another valid way to approach the goal of bringing batteries into the equation.


Anyone have experience running a DC alternator with a 6/1?  I'm thinking about setting up a battery bank and charger.  Any thoughts or alternator models to point out?

This one sure looks good: http://cgi.ebay.com/20-KW-DC-120-volt-generator-tug-boat-crane-shaft-gen_W0QQitemZ7579050724QQcategoryZ106437QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
just paint it green and go baby.

Batteries introduce waste, but I think I might come out ahead over a 12/2 which I'd almost never have running in its efficiency sweet spot.

124
Listeroid Engines / Re: THE ENGINE ROOM
« on: January 10, 2006, 10:11:18 PM »
My engine room is still in progress, but here's what I'm doing.
We live on an old farmstead in central Kansas.  One of my outbuildings is an old red barn. As i was poking around in it, I noticed that one end had some concrete footings.  I excavated them.  It turned out to be an old milk parlor.  So when i was done with the big dig, I had two parallel trenches .  One was 3 feet wide, 24 feet long, and 10 inches deep. The other was 13 inches wide, 8 inches deep, and 24 feet long.  They are separated by a 25 inch wide concrete walkway, also 24 feet long. 

I needed a lot of space, since I have engines coming through here from time to time. I wanted to be able to mount multiple engines and isolate them from each other.  I ended up with 5 pads.  First I bought a bunch of railroad ties, and cut them in half.  That left me with timbers that were 6 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches by 4 1/2 feet.  Next i bedded those ties four across, laid on edge, in a layer of rock screenings from a local quarry. Screenings are a mixture of sizes, 3/8 inch down to fines, and when they compact they form a tightly locked mass of compacted rock.  In the narrow trench i laid another half tie, also bedded in screenings.  When that layer was done, I had 5 pads roughly 5 by 7 feet.  I separated the pads from each other with more railroad ties at right angles to the parallel ties. Then I moved in another load of screenings and covered everything. 

The purpose of the screenings is to add mass, and to link the ties together as the screenings settle and compact. I vibrated the individual pads by bolting a timber across the rows, fastening it to each railroad tie, and then bolting a Changfa 175 engine to the timber. That's one of the smaller Changfas, and it's not dynamically balanced.  Which means it shakes when it runs.  Which is how I vibrated the rock screenings to compact them. When i was done with all five pads, the rock screenings had settled quite a bit so i spread another layer of them and did it again. By the time that process was done, the railroad ties were nicely linked to each other by compacted rock screenings. I laid one more thin layer on top, as a substrate for the next layer.

Now came the fun part.  At right angles to the railroad ties, I laid 3 x 12x 7 foot bridge plank.  The planks are green rough-sawn oak (which is pretty affordable here in the midwest, from Missouri sawmills)   Repeated the Changfa shakedown, added a little more screenings, and then I lag bolted every bridge plank to every railroad tie, 5 lags in all on each plank.

That's where it is now.  Each pad is 10 inches thick, 5 feet wide by 7 feet, with a big load of gravel integrated into it. Overall i used about 4 tons of screenings.
Now i am finishing a ramp on one end, where I can back a trailer up onto the pad to load and unload engines. More ties, screenings, and bridge plank.  It slants to the ground outside the barn, so I used pressure treated timbers.

Next I'll insulate the walls of the barn for sound proofing.  The pads are isolated from the walls. In the rest of the barn I'll build an extended workshop for engines and oilseed presses in there.  And in the hayloft, a wood working shop.

The electricity from the engine shed will come to my house by buried power line, into a small wash house that houses my batteries and inverters. 

That's probably more than you all wanted to know, but it's been a big buttload of work and I'm glad to have it as far along as I do.

 
   This new topic is about the ideal ENGINE ROOM.
Please share your ideas so we can all build better power plants.
   I just picked up a free 250 gallon outside home heating oil tank. It is pretty rusty on the outside, but looks solid. If it passes inspection I'll paint it up nice and use it for the outside fuel STORAGE TANK, Someday i could get a transfer pump and filter to move fuel to the DAY TANK. Meanwhile I could just put the DAY TANK under the STORAGE TANK valve to fill it up.
The DAY TANK is an old 6 gallon twin hose Johnson outboard tank, which will have both the supply and return lines, so plumbing is easy, and the fire / spill potential is less than using from the 250 gallon tank.
   I think others before have mentioned that these engines should not be up against a wall. My corner of the groj that I call the engine room did place the left end of the crankshaft about 3 inches from the wall. NOT GOOD I couldn't even take the flywheel off without dismounting the engine frome the generator frame.
    I have an automotive radiator for cooling, But I've seen those old cast iron home heat radiators, Iv'e just gotta have those! they look like LISTER all over! Especially in Hunter green.
You can see my set up in the coppermine gallery (before I took it apart for sand removal and a sub-frame upgrade)
    A cheap secure engine room could be built out of a 20 foot intermodal shipping container. They do not cost much. When you are not around you could lock the doors up tight. Being made of steel,(with a wood floor) you could weld in the exhaust pipe mounts, cooling lines & wire penetrations etc. The engine beds could span the wood and connect to the steel side frames...? Or be isolated? If you built everything on the inside it could be portable ;D
Scott E

125
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Changzuki Projectoid
« on: January 08, 2006, 04:05:07 AM »
It's a torque converter, taking the place of the transmission and allows the engine to run within a narrow rpm band (as diesels like to do).  Uses a thick rubber belt, and moves it  across the variable diameter of the drive discs and the driven discs to change the ratio automatically based on throttle setting and rear wheel feedback. The driven disc powers a jackshaft, which in turn drives the sprocket. From there backward it's stock chain drive.

I'd never heard of one, now I'm wondering how many other power transmission uses this thing might have. 

I bet Jerry would be happy to burn one of these for you too. 






Rgroves,

So what, pray tell, is the Comet Clutch all about?  I've looked around on the 'net and haven't found much other than references to drag racing and ATVs.

Inquiring minds and idle hands and all that . . .

Quinn


126
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: Changzuki Projectoid
« on: January 08, 2006, 02:19:41 AM »
Well, I couldn't resist.  I ordered the CD Thursday, it arrived today Priority Mail.  Nicely put together, arranged in easy to follow and well illustrated pdf chapters. 
Also a bunch of video.  CrazyJerry has a winner here.

The bike looks like a fairly easy project, sounds GREAT and Jerry is a great guy to deal with.

Now, if I put this in the stack of pending projects  - should get to it in 2 or three years.

127
Listeroid Engines / Re: Feeding Used UPS for backup?
« on: January 04, 2006, 09:21:18 PM »
I'll chime in here regarding Trace inverters.  I am right now in the process of installing my SW4024's in a small wash house right next to my house.  I may link them with a cable that allows them to feed both legs of a 240 circuit (Xantrex part SWI) if I really find the need for that.  Current battery pack is small, 4 Trojan L-16's with some years on them.  Eventually I will replace them, with some Rolls units that have an easy 20 year life span.  Having a big battery bank can let you shut down the generator for the night and sleep soundly.

I've used a 4024 for years, and back before the world as we know it ended on 1/1/2000 i sold quite a few of them too.  They are top notch, built to last for a long time, and they can surge to 3 times their rated power for starting loads.  In fact they can exceed their rated power by two times for 5 minutes.   And they  have a superb 3 stage battery charger, configurable for different battery chemistries and voltage/amperage setpoints. As somebody mentioned here, they can parallel to another AC source as needed.  So if you have a 6/1, powering a 5 kw head, and if that head can actually give you a momentary 5 kw output, the inverter would boost that to 17 kw for starting loads.

One bit of advice for anybody thinking about taking the plunge.  Buy the highest voltage you can get.  Xantrex makes these inverters with either 24 or 48 VDC input.  Higher voltage allows you a lot more leeway in cabling from batteries to inverters, and reduces by half the amperage you need to pull out of those batteries for a given AC load.  I have 4/0 inverter cables, necessary to absorb those big 24 volt surges.  I wish I had bought the 48 volt inverters.

Now I have a question for the group. One of these inverters, which have been in storage for 10 months, has had a mouse in it and it smells like mouse pee. It runs fine but that corrosive urine can't be a good thing.  I tried to remove the case but it's clearly not intended for mortals to do that.  Anybody have any ideas for a spray cleaner I could direct into the places where I need to clean it?

Thanks

rg


128
Listeroid Engines / Re: COLD start---
« on: December 11, 2005, 07:49:52 PM »
Yes, if there's a blocking diode in the panel you'll be fine.  And if it's a small panel, not much concern about overcharging.

Re electricity vs leftist politics - a few fundamental differences might be helpful.

Electricity is based on physical principles, and the rules make sense. So it's worth trying to understand at some point.

129
Listeroid Engines / Re: COLD start---
« on: December 11, 2005, 06:24:16 PM »
Quick note on solar panels here.  They will keep charging a battery as long as their voltage is higher than the battery.  But the problem with a direct connection is that the solar panel is a semi-conductor, and it will draw some battery power when there's no sunlight.  So you can end up discharging the battery overnight or on a cloudy day.

I recommend using a charge controller, which tapers the charge to match the phases of battery charging and disconnects them when the panels aren't making power any more.  You can find a decent controller for under $100.  They're rated in maximum amps and system voltage, so if you spend the extra bucks for higher amp capacity you can grow your PV array as you wish.


130
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: "PETTERCLONES"
« on: December 11, 2005, 01:29:48 PM »
This sounds like a fix simple enough that a newby like me could hack it. Thank you for the info.
The MP's are great looking little guys.  I'lm looking forward to doing real work with fuel flows measured in ounces per hour.
I think they'd be a great small field irrigation pump.  If they can support suction lift like other centrifugal pumps,  I'll use one to pull from my lower well and deliver water to gardens and my tree plantings.  The well has static water at 10 feet, bottom of the well is 20 feet down.  It's hand dug, cased with limestone all the way down, and about 3 feet in diameter.  The upper well is made the same way, but it's ten feet higher so static water starts at 20 feet.  Both dug during the Dust Bowl 30's when this was a horse powered livestock and grain farm.

131
Other Slow Speed Diesels / Re: "PETTERCLONES"
« on: December 11, 2005, 03:38:30 AM »
Hi, I'm new to the forum.  Have a bad habit of accumulating engines, too. So among my archives is a new 3.5 Mini-Petter pumpset. I uncrated it some time ago, then learned about the governor problems these have had and so I haven't yet fired it up. I'm getting close to finishing my engine shed mounting pads and i'll have a place to bolt down all sorts of stuff. One thing I hope to get running is that sweet little MP. Sounds like I'll need to tear into the governor and work on it first, something i've never done before. Do you have any tips for me?

 Your suggestion for harvesting the waste heat got me thinking. I have a cistern, ten feet from the house. it's 8 feet in diameter, 25 feet deep. What would happen if i pumped it dry, lined it with spray foam insulation and made a huge Thermos bottle out of it? Could store a lot of BTU's in that much water.

Just because I thought you'd enjoy the depths of my madness. My engine shed is an old milking parlor in one end of my barn. It had a good bit of concrete poured to take the waste away from the critters as they were milked. I cleaned out Lord knows how much manure and straw, then filled the trenches with railroad ties bedded in gravel screenings under and between the individual ties. I'm building 5 pads, next to each other but not connected. Each pad will be 5' x 7', topped with 3x12 oak bridge plank. at 90 degrees to the railroad ties. So the whole sandwich will be more than a foot thick, bedded in tamped gravel. Should let me mount a lot of engines, running several at once without the vibration translating from one to the other and isolated from the building as well.

I've been taking photos, and I'll put some of them up when it's done.

Thanks.

rg

Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9]