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Messages - M61hops

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61
Everything else / Re: Guess who?
« on: July 26, 2012, 10:32:25 AM »
Why don't we team up with Willem to find those dastardly Lister forum rats and get them?  They sound real bad and people like that don't deserve to have listeroids!  Come on men, meet me for some 4:20  :police: !

62
Lister Based Generators / Re: Genset problems
« on: July 23, 2012, 02:28:46 AM »
Hi macgyvermike, welcome to the forum!  Would you like to explain the problems that have discouraged you with your setup?  Most of the possible problems have been worked out by the members here.  Have you read this forum in depth and not found answers to your problems?  Setting up a Listeroid system is sort of a hobby more than a turn key project for sure.  I hate to admit that I think I've got better service from a $400 3600rpm 5KW set than I've got from my 6-1 ST5 during power outages but I'm not done playing yet.  In the long run I'm sure a co-gen setup with the Listeroid will give me satisfaction.  Many factors at play  :-\ here!    Leland

63
Lister Based Generators / Re: Bakery needs "Nudge" or STOP me now.
« on: July 23, 2012, 01:39:12 AM »
Welcome to the forum Keystone!  By now you realize you are talking about a sizeable investment to build your setup?  I would suggest having a water cooled engine so you could reclaim as much heat as possible to help offset the cost of this project.  With careful engineering you might come out slightly ahead in the long run with co-generation if you have a need for heat in your overall operations.  Just wondering if you have natural gas to your site already?  I wish you good luck and I hope you have fun with this project!           Leland

64
Lister Based Generators / Re: Metal lathe
« on: July 20, 2012, 09:37:01 AM »
O.K. I'm bragging here  ;D!  I've got three lathes and two milling machines!  Plus a cut-off bandsaw that can be used vertically and all the other stuff you find in a well equipped home shop.  One lathe is a cheap toy from Harbor Freight, the 7 X 12 and it is sort of stupid in the way it's built so I'm glad I only paid $100 for it.  Another lathe is a nice 15 X 60 gap bed with a 3 13/16 spindle hole also from china but a good machine.  My favorite tool is my 1943 Reed Prentice 15 X 72 engine lathe; it's just way cool and the serial number is stamped on all the tooling that came with it.  Everything works very smooth and you can just tell it's solid and rigid due to it's way generous portions of cast iron.  They just don't make things like this in the USA anymore.  The 15 X 60 lathe weighes 3500Lbs. and feels nice and solid, but I bet the Reed Prentice must weigh twice that and feels like it could carve an inch a pass on mild steel.  I also have a chinese clone of a Bridgeport with electric power feed, and an old Brown & Sharp No. 1 1/2 universal mill that has really cool because it's complicated gear drive power feed.  Yeah, I have a shop at home, maybe that's why I got no wife  ::)!                 Leland

65
Listeroid Engines / Re: Resonance frequency when on castor wheels
« on: June 19, 2012, 11:55:33 PM »
Hi carbon-rod, welcome, good looking work!  My Metro 6-1 was a real bad hopper and the chalk method just confused the hell out of me.  What worked was spinning the engine up with a golf cart motor after removing the plug from the changeover valve hole.  It took about 3 horsepower to spin the engine at 647rpm and I just trial and error-ed it.  Maybe you could borrow a gasoline engine off a roto-tiller or snow blower?  It didn't take very long to get the Metro smoothed out this way and it doesn't seem like a precision job because I didn't notice any difference when moving the weights around a bit or changing the amount a little.  You have to choose between up and down or shuffling back and forth and there was quite a lot of leeway once I was in the ballpark on my engine.  I ended up with about 1 pound of steel channel iron clamped to each flywheel.  When the cast weights on the flywheels are at BDC the weights I added are at the 10 o'clock position which is what complicates the chalk method.  It is well worth spending the time to do this job in my opinion.  Keep up the good work!    Leland

66
Hi Zagato, I'm no expert but I think that a 3-1 has a 1 1/2" diameter crankshaft and 5-1's and later had a 2" diameter crankshaft  :P .  You might be able to see that difference in a photo or the seller could measure for you.  Hope that helps!                        Leland

67
Engine horsepower is not necessarily linear so 600 RPM might or might not be 6 horsepower!  It's probably close but you would have to make a prony brake and test it if you really need to know.  Or you could look at the engine manufacturers spec sheet, they almost for sure have run a power curve on a dyno.  You could also load the genset with resistive load and calculate the output at the point where the exhaust just begins to smoke; that would tell you the max output.  Then you could figure on running a few hundred watts less than the point at which it smokes as to max sustained output.  Leland

68
At this point about all you can do is change the engine pully so the engine runs at 850 RPM or even faster if that can be done safely to try and get as much horsepower out of the engine as possible.  Also add more capacitence to the start circut.  Check to see if the govenor can respond fast enough to keep the RPMs up during AC start period.  If this doesn't work you will need a genset that can carry about 3 times the running watts of the AC unit so that it can handle the starting watts.  The maker of the AC should be able to tell you the starting watts or the genset size needed.  I'd try and use what I have but sometimes you just have to start over  :'( !  If AC is the main thing you need to run you might consider using the engine to run an automotive AC compressor and do the AC in a more direct manner?                       Leland

69
Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister attempts escape!
« on: July 04, 2010, 02:51:19 AM »
Sorry guys but I had to start over again because when I get to the bottom of the window I can't really keep typing without trouble like there is a word limit  ??? !  I didn't used to have this problem.  My old computer died and now I have several problems with this forum and also the CHP forum using this new to me computer  >:( !  Anyway back to ronmars comment; I'm not good with math but I'm sure that whatever causes my Metro to hop could lift many hundreds of pounds.  Maybe even a few thousand so I thought I needed to try and balance it better.  When I first saw this engine it was by itself bolted to just the frame and would hop up an inch or two just a little faster than idle speed.  Adding my 185lbs to the frame didn't seem to make any difference nor did adding the ST head on a heavy mount plus another 100lbs for the golf cart motor and it's mount.  I would be very afraid of breaking something to play pogo stick with this motor but it would be fun  ;) !  I bet I could get it to lift an impressive amount of weight but the faster it revs the shorter the lift at a certain point that I've not researched.  I think that the weight of the piston/rod is why it hops but there is a chance that the factory cast weights on the flywheels are to blame  ??? .  Maybe too heavy?  They seem in the right places, just opposite the crank throw; at first I thought that the keyways might be off.  The chalk marks just confused me when I started to play with my homemade weights.  For myself an electric motor to turn the Metro and trial and error placing the weights did the job  :P !!                   Leland

70
Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister attempts escape!
« on: July 04, 2010, 02:14:57 AM »
Hi ronmar.  My Metro came with a frame made out of some 1/8" wall box tubing and 1/4" thick channel iron and angle iron.  I would have used a little thicker metal if I was starting from scratch but what's here is OK, the frame weighs about 150lbs.  Then there is the weight of the ST 7.5 head and a golf cart motor.  Myself standing on the same end as the golf cart motor probably about equals the weight of the ST head on the other end and I'd guess the whole diesel powered pogo stick weights about 1500lbs  :P.  There are 4 nice 6" cast steel wheels built into the frame.  It just sits on the dirt and the wheels mash into the ground and keep the whole thing from migrating.  For balancing I set it on 2 1" pipes sitting on top of 2 6' pieces of 5" wide channel iron that I carefully levelled and tethered it with bungee cords.  Right now the wheels are sitting in the channel iron and the whole thing jiggles around a little but the wheels never lift off the ground.  Before I added the extra weights you would have to see and better yet feel it hop  :o !  Just unbeliveable!!  The first time I saw it do it's pogo stick trick I just burst out laughing, I've never seen anything like it  :D !!  It hops best just above idle, maybe around 250 RPM.  As you increase the speed it hops a little higher but I chickened out at about an inch and 300 RPM  ;D !  Though it's a great ride it seems dangerous and the faster it goes the shorter the time between up n' down strokes.  If someone had the balls it would probably top out at about a 2" lift and then get smoother as the RPM increases.  At 650 RPM it might just dance around like it does now even without my balance job because inertia and time would combine to tame it.  If the whole thing was bolted to a massive weight a person might not notice it had a balance problem because above some RPM ( WAG, 400 or 450 ?) there wouldn't be enough time for the whole assembly to react.  The frame the engine came with is about 6' long and just over 3' wide and weighs probably 150 lbs. so the engine won't tip over very easily but it can hop up and down like a pogo stick.  I'm pretty sure that there is a downward thrust also when the piston/rod reverses direction at the bottom of the stroke, it might be fun to bolt the engine/frame to my utility trailer and take my home made weights off  ::) !   Leland

71
Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister attempts escape!
« on: July 02, 2010, 10:54:15 PM »
Hi ronmar and vmetro, sorry for the delay in reply, I didn't see this for some reason.  I was really shocked by how hard and sudden my Metro 6-1 would jump up!  I weigh 185lbs and standing on the frame had no effect on the jumping  :o!  I think it could lift at least 1000lbs!  I had an image in my mind of the piston and rod reversing at TDC every time it hopped up; I couldn't think of anything else that could cause this to happen.  This was the reason the guy was selling the engine, it was not useable hopping like this.  I was pretty sure I could fix it so I bought it because it was so much quieter than any other diesel that I have stood next to.  I had to just trial and error the balance weights, trying to think it through gave me too much of a headache  ;D!  I think turning the engine with another motor and using a dial indicator are the best way to go about balancing a Listeroid, but I have a bad back and can't hand start a diesel anyway  :'( .  I will eventually bolt this engine, generator and AC compressor frame to a block of concrete for the mass to dampen what little movement is left and to try and get rid of the "thump" I feel in the ground when standing next to the unit.  I ended up with about 1lb of weight on each flywheel about 40 degrees ahead of the cast weights.  I tried more and less in that general area and it did not seem too critical so I settled on what seemed to be the smallest back and forth on the dial indicator and felt the smoothest to resting my hand and feet on the engine and frame.  Looking at where I had to add weight I now think that the jumping was caused by the weight of the piston/rod reversing not at TDC but accelerating down the bore as the crank arm approaches 90 degrees ATDC  ??? !  When the piston starts down the weights I added are still going up and when they get to TDC the piston is about 1/2 way down the bore.  I'm impressed that such a small amount of weight stopped the hopping, I'm not kidding, I think the engine could have lifted thousands of pounds up before I added the new weights!  I was afraid to rev the engine very much for fear of tearing the flywheels apart or breaking the crank or something else  :o !                              Leland

72
Hopefully this AC is a capillary tube metering system type.  If so, you might add a hard start capaciter and solve the problem.  Small generators have a real hard time starting motors for several reasons.  If your generator RPMs drop off a lot when it tries to start the AC and the AC isn't built so that it bleeds off the head pressure when the compressor is stopped you might need to start over with different hardware  :'( ?                Leland

73
If the 6KVA 3 phase alternator is driving a large single phase AC compressor, that could be the problem right there.  Is the AC compressor also 3 phase? Leland

74
Lister Based Generators / Re: Lister attempts escape!
« on: June 01, 2010, 04:03:06 AM »
Hi guys, I've tried to post a few times but it doesn't go through >:(.  I turned my 6-1 Metro from an unusable boat anchor into a useable engine by doing a trial and error balancing job.  I removed the COV plug and set up a 3HP golf cart motor to spin the engine at 637 RPM.  This worked out quite well and only took a few hours.  I got the engine from a guy who couldn't use it because it would jump up off the ground at just above the slowest idle speed at which it would run.  Using chalk just confused me so I ended up just trial and error.  The amount of weight and location didn't seem very critical though I did use a dial indicator to try and get the least shuffle I could.  I made weights from some 3/16 wall rectangular tubing so I had some U shape pieces that straddle the ridge in the middle of the flywheel and clamp on with screws through holes I threaded in the sides of the weights.  I ended up with about a pound of weight on each flywheel about 40 degrees ahead of the cast in weights.  Without these weights the engine had tremendous lifting force at pretty low speed  :o, I couldn't believe how much force it lifted with!  With the new weights, no jumping and about 1/4" of back and forth shuffle with the engine & generator frame sitting on 2 1" pipes so that it can move freely; except for I had it restrained with bungee cords and chains so it couldn't totally escape the yard  ;).  This was very much worth the time spent!                         Leland

75
Listeroid Engines / Re: 6/1 Metro First Run -- Waterpump Problems
« on: May 23, 2010, 11:24:33 PM »
Hi vmetro, I'd like to throw in my .02 on your water pump!  I think that the ball bearing was intended to take 90% of the side thrust from the belt tension and the body of the pump is a sleeve bearing that the shaft rides in, thus the reason for the grease cup  ;) !  If it had been properly greased and had a good quality ball bearing it should last a long time.  Because the ball bearing failed, the shaft has eaten into the housing that was supposed to provide some support as a sleeve bearing.  If you wanted a lathe project the housing could be bored out and a bronze sleeve pressed into it for a new bearing.  That is what I would likely do for fun  ;D !                         Leland

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