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Messages - Quinnf

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Listeroid Engines / Re: 350 rpm 6/1?
« on: August 07, 2015, 01:55:47 AM »
Speaking theoretically, the engine was designed to run at 650 rpm.  The flywheel weight and governor weight and geometry were optimized for that speed.  The flywheel's kinetic energy is a function of the square of the speed of the flywheel.  So if you reduce the speed by half, the energy stored in the flywheel is only 1/4 what it was at 650 rpm.  I'd be concerned about the effect on the rod bearings and the crankshaft.  Running an engine at a show with no load at half speed is no problem, but if you're making it work, the engine will very soon be lugging.  I'm not sure that's a good idea.  Again, speaking theoretically. 

Generators / Re: Listeroid gen set
« on: August 04, 2015, 04:49:15 PM »
What's that radiator you're using?  It looks like one designed for thermosiphon, like out of an old Ford.  It's nice to see the right flywheels on an 8/1.


General Discussion / Re: We're moving again....
« on: June 03, 2015, 05:20:31 PM »
It's pretty amazing that we haven't seen any spam or undesirable activity here.  Whatever you have been doing has worked well.


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Newby: Lister CS boat owner
« on: May 08, 2015, 05:04:03 AM »

Would you please post some pics showing how you connected the engine to the propeller shaft?

Well, I got an answer from the people over at  POR-15
Subject: Engine enamel inside crankcase:
Sorry we do not recommend any of our products inside a crankcase. Thanks, Mike
Absolute Coatings, inc.

So does anybody have a recommendation other than the glyptol  (apparently only made in red?)
I need something brushable, I have no spray equipment.

Re: the paint question, there's no reason to use anything other than a good quality oil based paint.  This isn't a gasoline engine.  Diesel won't attack paint.  In fact, the oil used in the vehicle that the paint pigment flakes are suspended in is very similar to diesel.  However, if you plan to use biodiesel, then residual alcohol could be a problem.  I have two engines that I painted the inside and outside of using Rustoleum paint in a quart can in 2005, and the paint is fine.  No reason to use expensive two-part epoxies unless you want to.


Generators / Re: Strange readings............
« on: March 20, 2015, 04:30:57 AM »
I set mine up at 62-63 rpm at no load, and it drops to 59-60 at full load, so I think your governor linkage might be sticking somewhere.  Mount the frequency meter on the wall and it will work fine.  Better yet, eBay has some very nice analog frequency meters for very little money and they're far easier to read than the reed-type, but nowhere near as "cool."

Listeroid Engines / Re: Seal squeal?
« on: March 18, 2015, 05:18:40 PM »
If it is a dry seal, it will self-destruct in no time at all.  When assembling a seal to a shaft, the shaft and seal should be lubricated with grease, motor oil, STP Oil Treatment (my favorite), or something similar.  I learned the hard way as a teenager when rebuilding my truck engine.  Yep, rear main seal began leaking after only a few hundred miles because I assembled it dry.  Grrrr!

Listeroid Engines / Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« on: February 27, 2015, 02:14:57 AM »
Great discussion!  I used a drop of red Locktite to stick the bushing to the shaft. 


Listeroid Engines / Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« on: February 26, 2015, 08:34:03 AM »
No worries.  We're all learning.  I spent my working life wearing a lab coat and support stockings in pharmaceutical research, so I'm no professional wrench-turner.  I'm glad to learn something new. 

Gary, I made my offset bushing just like you did. 

I turned down the idler gear shaft and installed the offset bushing (bronze, in my case) until the noise went away, and called it good.   

The thing that I don't get about measuring gear backlash in common involute spur gears is that the point of contact between adjacent gear teeth moves along the length of the tooth, and without a meshed pair of gears right in front of me, I'm at a loss to figure out how to measure the backlash.  So like Gary, I used my ears and hoped for the best.  Gears are deceptively sophisticated machines.  Just getting the nomenclature right is a challenge.  So I'm all ears. 


Listeroid Engines / Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« on: February 26, 2015, 01:24:32 AM »
[snip]  If a person reads all of Georges ramblings on this subject he will see that he knew that the bronze gear was more of a crutch than the fix. If he addressed backlash I don't recall reading it.  

That's right.  Since most gears lost teeth opposite the "00" mark that was stamped into the rim, it was thought that impact stress caused localized deformation, which lead to localized weakening.  Soon, however, it became apparent that manufacturing inconsistencies made some engines loose teeth like a septuagenarian, while others seemingly ran forever.  Joel spent a considerable sum of his own money having the gear profile analyzed, and the recommendation was to try making the idler gear from bronze.  

Dave, (Xyzer) spent some time and measured a block accurately and turned up the fact that the idler gear shaft was mislocated in relation to the crankshaft and cam, and he was the first person to identify the issue of backlash as the likely cause of gear stripping.  I don't recall anyone who installed the offset idler spindles that he made available for a time, having any further problems.  

The Ashwamegh 6/1 that was my first engine, made a terrible "clack" as the engine cranked over each cam lobe without compression.  After making a series of idler spindle bushings drilled offset 0.005 to 0.030", I found that the 0.010 bushing brought the backlash to the point where I couldn't hear the "clack" anymore.  I used thickness gauges to measure the backlash, but because of the cramped quarters and difficulty of seeing into the crankcase, I wasn't very comfortable with the precision of my measurement.  So I chose the bushing that eliminated the "clack."  

For the sake of posterity, I'd like to understand how you measured gear backlash.  I haven't read anyone describe in detail how they actually measured the lash.  


Listeroid Engines / Re: Water in jection decarboning
« on: February 20, 2015, 07:23:44 PM »
Yes, the solid upper bearing shell came to be after several of us concurred that the problems Jack (Hotater) was having with his 25,000 hour engine eating bearing shells resulted from failure to maintain an oil film.  The channels in the upper shell were bleeding oil film away from the surface where it was most needed.  So (I think it was) George Breckenridge, ordered some bearings with the solid upper shell, over the strident objections of the Indian supplier, and, oiling from the bottom via a hollow dipper, the problem went away.  The upper oiling holes bored in the big end of the crank were also thought to funnel any grit/dirt that might make its way down the con rod into the bearing along with the oil.  Another reason to use the hollow dipper.   

Listeroid Engines / Re: Jkson 6/1 rebuild
« on: February 05, 2015, 05:55:01 PM »
Not all of the Indian hardware is that sloppy... [snip]

I second that.  The threaded fittings on my Ashwamegh were very loose, and I replaced all of the ones I could with US fasteners, which fit better.  However, the Jkson engine had fittings that were as good as US made.

Are you sure it's not from a loose gib key?  When you hit the fuel shutoff valve, or compression release, does the clank go away?  It might be that you have clearance between the gib key and the keyway in the crankshaft and/or the keyway in the flywheel.  I had that problem with my Ashwamegh, and after measuring the width of the gib key, and the keyways, found there was a total of 0.029" mismatch.  On every power stroke the crankshaft would slip and fetch up against the key, even though the key was tight.  Made a clank that sounded like it was coming from the middle of the crankcase, so I initially thought it was rod knock.  

I inserted brass shims between the sides of the key and the keyways, which took care of the problem.  That might be one reason why the Indians insert gib keys using sledgehammers.  

And send us some of your rain.  It looks like another dry year down South.  We had only 5" last year. 


Listeroid Engines / Beta-Tester Articles
« on: January 27, 2015, 07:53:14 PM »
A number of you old timers might recall that George published on his website a couple of reports I wrote to him and Joel regarding my observations during the assembly of a kit-engine they were looking at importing.  Following a version update, the software George used on his website lost about half of the photos, rendering the report pretty much useless.

Since I retired last Fall, I had time to revise and augment the original report, which grew from simply a "put 'er together and tell us what you think" to a more in-depth discussion of what I saw as I subsequently stripped that engine down to bare metal, and then slowly re-assembled it.

There are presently Part 1 and Part 2 on the Utterpower website.  Part 3 is in the works, so stay tuned.  George's new website is something of a blog.  Scroll down to Jan 18 and Jan 26, 2015 to see the links for the articles.

I hope the articles are helpful, especially to the newcomers who haven't been around these past 10 years (has it been that long?).


Listeroid Engines / Re: balance and stover 20" on a 6/1, left and right?
« on: January 02, 2015, 02:25:09 AM »
There's the standard configuration that we all know and love (cast iron piston and indirect injection), and then there is a version called the GM-90, which has an aluminum piston for direct injection and counterweights on the crank throw, with balanced flywheels (like Tyssniffen's).  You can see it here:  The head looks very different from the outside.  George had one in his shop several years ago that I got a good look at.


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