ie seen plent of stationary engines mounted on vibration isolation in fact i dont think ive ever seen one that wasnt.

The plain and simple fact is that people _want_ to install stationary engines improperly on flexible mounting systems... But this is an act of human will based on desire, not on sound engineering practices or Newtonian physics. In order to justify their desire and actions of will (not logic), they must rationalize to extreme degrees in order to support their lack of factual basis for their decisions and the positions they have taken based purely on their desires and the resulting actions of will.

Truly, what a person does with their engine on their property is their business. My problem only starts when they go public and post to others that their way is the right way, or the best way, and that anybody and everybody can & really should do it their way... That's just plain wrong, like flex mounting a stationary engine is just plain wrong. What _you_ do wrong on your own is what you do. Do it here in front of me, I have words to say about it... And pictures to document the facts, engineering specifications to document the facts, I can post construction techniques and material specifications that document the facts... From legitimate engineering sources. And in fact I have done so a number of times.

This clearly must be an instance where the human desire and will in some people are completely at odds with the facts.

"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"  "An exclamation by David Farragut"


Any long term damage? Would a slow water or propane injection fix this over time?

Thanks, Geno

LMAO... Great way to put it!!!  I don't think there is any long term damage at all... I heard that valve "ticking" afterwards but then decided it sounded more like I had holed the exhaust in the process. I got under the truck the other day and sure enough a seam has opened up on the muffler which was near the end of it's life in any case.

The truck had been driven in California traffic, and it has not been pushed under a load for some years. I am sure that is why it had carboned up... It had been run unloaded on lots of short trips, crowded stop & start highways, and never permitted to get good and hot or up to speed for any extended period of time. The guy had the wrong engine for this application, a gasoline fueled truck is what he needed.  The 7.3 liter Ford diesel in that truck honestly needs almost an hour to get fully up to temperature, after 10 minutes of running the end of the exhaust system is barely warm, same with the bottom of the oil pan. To get everything _hot_ takes about 60 minutes with the rack open under a _load_!!!

I am pretty sure that one reason I got the truck cheap is because the previous owner had been hearing the knock getting worse and worse and decided to unload it before the engine came apart. The thing was after researching these engines, I was highly doubtful that the knock was anything serious. I was right, but because the engine sounded like it was burning whole walnuts it came cheap.

I think my application for the truck in a pulling rig and with the distances I have to travel routinely, the loads, and the hills, my use will prevent buildup... In fact I would say it is actually reversing the condition and it is self-cleaning like a good oven. I just ran it hard for several days, put a couple of tanks of B-20 thru it, and it sounds a lot better than it did when I bought it. If I replace the exhaust with the 3" Cummings system that came with it, it will sound cherry.

I talked to an engine guy the other day after this happened and told the story and he nodded and says this is a routine event when decarbonizing engines, especially diesels, and that he has never seen any harm result... It happens.

[You are right about the hammer alright....you go first but I will give you the option of a piece of a 1" thick rubber between ... what does Newton say about that teacher?

Now... Where is that rubber between your crankshaft and the crank bearings?

Or is that your head stuck in there? 

And talk of reducing the vibration to zero with a massive block is something that you seriously don't want. Zero movement equals maximum load on your bearings, period.

Somebody needs a lesson in elementary Newtonian physics. This statement contains some basic inaccuracy that implies breaking the basic laws of Newtonian physics. Think about it.

Objects in motion contain more energy than objects at rest. A crankcase in motion delivers more stress, load, and energy to things like bearings than a crankcase not in motion. Zero movement equals the lowest possible energy state in any system.

You don't have to be a high energy physicist, or a rocket scientist, to figure this out... Simply apply a hammer to your skull.  A hammer that is not moving equals minimum load to your brain case, a hammer that is moving will hurt your head. Try it if you don't believe in Newton, he learned with apples, but hammers make a better lesson.

But even your standard cube of buried concrete is just a dampener - there's still movement, which will be transferred to the engine's surroundings.

This statement is only partly true. The correct mount is called an inertial damping block. The goal is not to completely restrict movement of the stationary equipment. The goal is to reduce the frequency of oscillation by the application of mass to the system, and then isolating the resulting energy so that it does not transmit to surrounding structures which would result in cracks and failure in slabs, foundations, walls, tanks etc..

I hate to be blunt, but you rubber room guys really and truly do not understand basic physics.

The link did not post!!! 

 Please edit and insert the link 

That is one very nice trailer, Rtqii!

Actually I think mine looks better than the one in that pic... But the design is identical, I have diamond steel plate where there is wood on that trailer.

Pulling it with a load caused me to throw a rod and drop a valve in the truck the other day tho... At least that is what it sounded like... .. .

I was pulling up a hill... The engine has had a knock since I bought it a couple weeks back, I always dismissed it as a diesel knock. Ignorance is bliss.

I was pulling the loaded rig outside Tumuncari, New Mexico and the knock was getting worse and worse. Part of me knew it was no big deal, part of me knew it was a rod getting ready to let go... The thing was the knock was not regular like a rod and I did not feel it thru the pedal like a rod.

I had just passsed a truck stop and decided if it was a rod, I was going to launch it thru the block right then and there where I could get a tow and a new engine... So up the steep hill I floored it and held it to the floor as all hell broke loose.

Did I ever tell you guys I am hard on equipment? Always within specs... Just hard.

I heard, and then felt, a valve drop... I mean I heard and felt the valve hitting the top of the piston, steel on steel, running flat out under a load up a hill... And I did not let off the pedal, I held it floored, hard, having already decided we were going to have it out right then and there.

At first when I started climbing that hill outside Tumuncari the engine sounded like it was fueled on whole walnuts... But up that hill with the trailer, loaded, and the rack wide open it sounded like it was chewing up glass marbles... Then I heard, and felt, a valve hitting the top of the piston.

The engine never choked or let up pulling with power, and I never let up off the rack... You can't blow an engine properly if you let off when it starts to come apart. But after what seemed like several seconds of steel on steel impacts the engine finally spit out the offending "parts" and in the rear view mirror I saw red sparks and glowing streamers blowing out the exhaust and swirling about in the dust and smoke I was leaving as I pulled up over the hill.

I never let off the pedal, the engine smoothed out noticeably, the knock all but vanished and she sounded better than ever as she pulled the load up over the crest and settled in for the downhill at speed.

What happened?  The knock was caused by accumulated carbon deposits and one cylinder was choked up more than the others. After 8 hours or so pulling the loaded trailer things had warmed up good, and the predetonation that the carbon deposit was causing began to shake itself loose. When I stepped on it hard and held it down with a good load, the petrified carbon finally broke loose... It rattled around in the combustion chamber for a few cycles trying to find its way out, it finally lodged in the exhaust valve. These carbon deposits are only slightly softer than stone... With the valve wedged open, the piston slapped the head of the valve a few times and it finally broke the carbon chunk up into managable pieces... Which blew out as a glowing spray from the exhaust. It took a few seconds (it seemed, it was only a few cycles this all happened in slow motion to my ears) to chew this chunk up and spew out the digested bits.

Kinda like passing a kidney stone... It never would have come out without pulling the heads and busting it loose with a chisel 

I think that mounting a Listeroid to a big block is the way to go.  Sink that vibration so something so massive in comparison that it can't go ANYWHERE.   But, that takes a lot of work and thought.  It's also totally not portable, but the Lister was never intended to be portable.

That's the crux... People want to treat the Lister/Listeroid stationary engine as if it was a transportation engine designed to deal with flexible mounts and the resulting movement of the crankcase.  The thing is, they are looking at the wrong type engine. Stationary engines with big flywheels are not transportation engines designed for flex mounts.

You can stationary mount a transportation engine, no problem... Flex mount a stationary engine and you are simply trying to force the wrong engine design to work for you. Get a different engine, or if you don't and you experience failures of moving parts in service put the blame where it belongs, on the obstinate engineer, not the machine or the quality control.