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Messages - aqmxv

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241
Listeroid Engines / Re: So how do you do this? (New to Listeroid)
« on: August 11, 2006, 10:19:59 PM »
Thanks bbbuddy-

After reading a couple of descriptions of how others moved their engine, I'm thinking that the cost of buying all that pipe, timbers, block & tackle, come-along, etc (for which I would have no use after the fact) would probably about equal a couple hours rental for a forklift.  I'll have to call around.  Yes, I can certainly figure out how to move it, but cost, time and effort are other factors.  If I had those materials already on hand, their use would be a no-brainer.  If it's a question of purchasing them for a one-time use, versus renting some equipment to make the job quick and easy... well, you get the drift.
I considered that, but then decided that since I needed mounting timbers anyway, why not use them for ramps?  I already had the come-along I'll be using.  Bought 50' of thick braided nylon rope (thousands of uses) which will be connecting the come-along to the hopefully immovable object and the listeroid.  Decided against rollers - will be putting casters on the timber frame, and then jacking and bolting footer blocks to it when it's located.  To get the engine onto the frame I'll be using the come-along in reduction to the floor joists above.

I have assorted scrap lumber around used for jack pads and the like.  That'll be acting as stacking blocks for the ramps.  Total investment to date is about $40 in lumber and rope that I'll be using for other things.

242
Listeroid Engines / Re: So how do you do this? (New to Listeroid)
« on: August 11, 2006, 08:55:15 PM »
Nothing says you can't have two 6/1s instead of a twin. 

Now THAT I'd like to see - but how do you keep the two gen units in phase and still maintain efficiency?  If they're not running identical, any differences would result in the two systems fighting each other to a certain amount, resulting in lost efficiency.  I'm thinking, for example, that one unit isn't enough to run my home AC, but two together could do it.  What do you think?

The easiest way would be to belt the second 6/1 to the first 6/1 with a toothed belt drive (you don't want the two engines changing phase all the time - your house would really start to dance).  Set them up so they fire evenly to each other, and drive the generator with the usual multigroove belt off the first 6/1.  Another option would be to mount the generator between the two 6/1s and run a toothed belt to each from the gen head.  This costs you more for pulleys and belts, but gains you flexibility - either 6/1 can be inop and you still can make 3.5 KW of power.

I've thought of making an L2-1 listeroid:  Take a 12/2 and set it up with valve and injection pump disables and a series/parallel valving arrangement for the water jackets.  Run on two lungs for max power, or disable one cylinder to air spring mode, route the hot water from the running cylinder to the nonrunning one to keep the rings happy, and make 6 HP almost as efficiently as a 6/1 would.  Almost certainly a lot more trouble than it's worth.

Of course, if we can get somebody to make us a 600 RPM generator head the whole multiple engines question gets a lot easier.


243
Listeroid Engines / Re: So how do you do this? (New to Listeroid)
« on: August 11, 2006, 07:27:16 PM »
Hi bruss01, I'm another newbie to listeroids, but have quite a bit of other semi-related experience with everything from snowmobiles to marine engines.

George's Utterpower CD is the closest thing there is to a manual.  It's definitely not everything you're looking for, but it at least is full of ideas.

Everyone seems agreed that if you want quality out of the box, try to get a good used real Lister from the UK and refurbish it.  You should probably regard a listeroid as a semi-finished kit, and treat it accordingly.  the good news is that most of the problems appear to be fit-and-finish related and should be sufficiently remediable without resort  to machine tools.  As it is, I have a neighbor who's a machinist ( http://www.jensensteamengines.com ) and would undoubtedly get a kick out of helping with this sort of thing.

The toughest part for someobdy in a garage like me is handling heavy lumps of cast iron.  I can do up a hoist easily to a floor joist, but something like a roller crane sure would be nice, and I'm old enough that moving 125 lb flywheels around isn't a completely trivial thing to do by hand.  I might finally have to break down and buy an engine hoist (corvair engines only weigh about 250 lbs completely assembled - never needed one).  To be sure - you want to strip, inspect, and clean any listeroid before starting it.  Also to be sure - you'll probably find yourself doing a lot of measure, fit and finish before it's back together.  And I don't care what kind of engine it is - it should be properly balanced.  It probably isn't in the crate, so you get to do it.  The bump method described elsewhere here is adequate.

I'm also dealing with the fact that, like you, I have to have temporary/portable mounting.  Historically, engines like this were often mounted on heavy skids for portable use, and Lister built a delivery truck with the engine mounted on a drive wheel.  I understand that the concrete block mounting is ideal, but I'm probably going to be moving in a year or two.  One thing I am certain of - if you're going to do a portable mount, stick to the lighter, slower engines like the 6/1.

Generator sizes are pretty well laid out already.  A 6/1 will run a 3.5 KW gen head well.  I'm going to use a 5 KW because I may use the head on something else as well, and having the windings running well below rating might cost some efficiency, but will gain me a cooler generator.  A 12/2 would use either a 7.5 or 10 KW head.

So far I have seen no explanation of how to get a 700 lb chunk of cast iron off a trailer and into your garage... does everyone out there have a ton of burly friends, or maybe a forklift out back under a tarp?  I have neither.
Ha!  Neither have I.  I had the receiving guy at work fork the pallet in to my Corvair van, and it's been in there ever since.  I've spent the last two days thinking, fabricating and rigging something to get this thing out of the van (which has a 18" floor height, thankfully) and onto the garage floor so I can uncrate it.  I can tell you this - simple machines are your friends.  In my case, the pulley, the lever, and the roller are all going to get a workout tonight.  If you're applying direct muscle to a whole listeroid and you're not a weight lifter, you're probably going to hurt yourself.

    I'm nervous about sending a ton of money to a foreign country beyond the reach of US law, but if that could be addressed can I order directly from the manufacturer (provided someone there speaks English!)?  Ship directly to Port of Sacramento?  Are listeroid parts "standard" across manufacturers?
Most people here are buying from somebody doing a batch import, often as part of a larger business.  There's a lot of voodoo about EPA regs, but my engine, at least, showed up without any surprises through someone who has imported them in the past and probably will in the future.  In any event, as someone who used to work at EPA, I can assure you that the EPA smog cop car pulling up to your house with the lights flashing because you have a listeroid is vanishingly unlikely.

If EPA import rules suddenly start really applying to Listeroids, there's always individual import from Canada.  There is more than one Canadian vendor here, and a private owner importing for his own use is legal under the lifetime personal exemption clause for nearly anything including a Trabant.  Believe me, if they won't flag a Trabbie, they won't flag a Listeroid!

Parts interchangeability varies across brands and models.  Most seem to be mostly compatible.  Excessive compatibility isn't always a good thing - it looks like they've standardized on one rocker arm that isn't actually the right one for the 6/1 with IDI.  It's definitely worth your time and trouble to compare different brands and decide how much generic nature you want, and if there are any specific featuers like direct injection or a real oil pump that some engine have and others don't.  It appears that most of the engine manufacturers are buying their raw castings from a very few foundries, and are doing the finish and assembly themselves - rather like white box PC manufacturers.  This means that a Lovson and a Metro probably share a lot of castings, for example.


244
Listeroid Engines / Re: Big end oiling
« on: August 11, 2006, 05:44:51 PM »
Mobile_bob - If you look at page 3 in the original lister manual posted on the Yahoo group, the reasoning for the top oiler hole on the con rod makes more sense.  It's supposed to be dripped on from the pump reservoir above.

Of course, that doesn't mean that it actually happens that way...

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