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Messages - listeroil

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Generators / Re: 4.5kva output
« on: February 05, 2019, 11:56:26 PM »
Heres a picture

Generators / Re: 4.5kva output
« on: February 04, 2019, 07:44:25 PM »
It says PF .1 so does that make KW and KVA the same?


Generators / Re: 4.5kva output
« on: February 03, 2019, 09:38:15 PM »
Just to be pedantic, although it does make a difference in this case, Both 4,5 KVA and 4.5 KW have been quoted for the same machine here.

You make a good point so I checked up my Lister manual and brochure for this particular unit and in all the publications it states 4.5KW.  Then I went and checked the brass spec plate on the actual BKB generator and it says 4.5 KVA.  I have now checked a few more Lister manuals and some of them say:-
8/1----4.5 KW----4.5KVA----230V----50CYCLES.     
All very confusing Listers seem to reckon KW and KVA are the same when in fact they are not the same. However IMHO KWs is what Lister advertise in there brochures and manuals and they would not state 4.5KW if it couldn't do that.  So I reckon this generator could easily handle the OPs 4.2KW.

Generators / Re: 4.5kva output
« on: February 02, 2019, 06:26:12 PM »
The 8/1 engined Startomatics with the 4.5kw BKB generator are rated for continuous use at 4.5kw.  However they are rated to BS1958 which states that the generator can be run at 10% overload for a period 1 hour in a 12 hour period. This is also true of the engine. They both conform to BS1958 spec. I do have a Lister brochure which gives this information but at the present moment it is buried under a massive pile, when I find it I will post a picture.



The AC brush connections are the ones that go to the slip rings.


Sorry to butt in at this late stage but I have read through all the pages of this post and think you need to take a fresh look at your problem.  I have been running these for 18 years and have rebuilt a few and this is a simple way of checking if your windings are ok.

When you start a generator with one of these dual function alternators you feed 24 volts into start windings which also feeds the main field winding as well which is the same as flashing the winding.  So no need to flash the aux winding for any reason on these units.
What I would suggest is that you connect a 100 watt 240v incandescent light bulb directly to the 2 AC brush connections in the generator.  Then start the engine and see what happens. The bulb should light up and stay lit when starter is released.

When I rebuild mine I do this before connecting the generator to the engine and use the starter function to spin the generator up.  What happens is that as the revs increase the light get brighter and brighter as the revs build up.  When I disconnect the start connection the bulb looses a bit of brightness but stays lit until the generator run down.  If yours does this the windings are okay and your problem lies elsewhere.

Hi Listeroil, perhaps you can explain to me how these are wound as tight as they are without any insulation. Did they acid etch them or coat them with something to to stop them from shorting between the windings?

I did not consider insulation just wound it up as tight as I could and used it. It worked okay.  However it makes sense to use insulated so I checked the website and they do sell oxidised wire and that appears to be insulated.One thing I will say is that all the resistors in Lister top boxes that I have seen have black windings and also a brand new one that I bought years ago.  That one cost me 50 which is why next time I needed one I rewound it instead of being ripped off by Sleeman and Hawkins


To Jonnymac

On the charging problem, I've found the problem, the resistor is damaged. Any ideas on repair/replacement? Could i re wind it with resistor wire?

I have rewound a few of these resistors in the past and buy the wire from these people   This is the wire that I used  Bare Constantan.

50g 0.71mm Copper Nickel Wire
Ref: CN0710-050
Price: 5.44 Exc VAT (6.53 Inc 20% VAT)
50 gram reel of 0.71mm 22 SWG Bare Copper Nickel Wire (Copper Nickel = Constantan = Eureka)
Data: approx: 1.24 ohms per metre, 50g = approx 14 metres

This was correct for the resistor that I needed yours will probably be different. What I did is count the number of turns. Measured the diameter of the resistor calculate the circumference the multiply that by the number of turns to give the length of the wire needed.  In my case it worked out to 8 meters of wire needed for 115 turns to give me the 12 ohms required.  Also you need to measure the diameter of the actual resistance wire.

Nickel Chrome resistance wire is also available but would have only filled about half the resistor. But It might have been used in your case.  This why you need to do a bit of maths so you don't get the wrong wire.

50g 0.71mm Nickel Chrome Wire
Ref: NC0710-050
Price: 6.75 Exc VAT (8.10 Inc 20% VAT)
0.710mm 22 SWG Bare Nickel Chrome Wire (also known as Nichrome Wire / Hot Wire Cutter / Foam Cutter / Heater Wire / Element Wire)
Data: approx 2.7 ohms per metre, 50 gram = approx 15 metre



You do not say where you live in your profile but if you live in the UK.
 Westwood cylinder liners might have just what you need.
Part No.              Inside Diameter       Outside Diameter         Length      
                           MM    Inch              MM       Inch             MM            Inch    
WCL 40F      114.30   4.500   120.73   4.753   250.83   9.875


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Lister CS 6/1 and 8/1
« on: January 05, 2018, 11:25:00 AM »
Another difference is the governor weights. They are lighter on the 8/1 engine.


Engines / Re: Lpw3 exhaust manifold
« on: November 16, 2017, 06:12:45 PM »
In the UK Sleeman and Hawken are the main agent 01626 77 82 66. Affectionately known as stealer and hawken they do know how to charge.  I rebuilt a LPW4 2 years ago and it cost over 2500 in parts from them.  The workshop manual recommends changing lots of the bolts when rebuilding the engine. Dont bother with new bolts as the ones they supplied me were absolute rubbish they snapped when torquing the head down. The new headbolts were soft if you tapped 2 new bolts together they made a dull ringing sort of noise. Tap the old head bolts together and they rang at a lot higher pitch and torqued down perfectly. They seem to have every thing in stock but make sure your sitting down when you ask the price. It might be a good idea to get a price from them first. And them get a price off dieselgman even though he is in the States he might be cheaper.  Will say one thing though if you have never built an engine before its a bit of a hard one to start on theres lots of other engines a lot easier and cheaper to rebuild.  For instance a Lister CS type easy available in the UK for a reasonable price cheap Indian spare parts and you could use it to get into Steam rallies for free by showing the engine.


The weights on the left hand side are from a 1958 8/1 engine.  
The weights on the right hand side are from a 1962 6/1 engine both Start-O-Matics.
The part numbers are different.
6/1 governor weight      003-00167
8/1 governor weight      008-06106
The 8/1 weights are clearly smaller.

I agree on the statements to increase the revs.  I own and have used 6/1 and 8/1 engined generators and only use the 8/1 now they produce far better electric with none of the dreaded flicker. Even the genuine 6/1 engined Start-O-Matic with massive flywheels and an extremely heavy alternator pulley still produce flicker.  It not really surprising  that a modern inverter/charger will have problems with such an up and down electric supply. The 8/1 engines running at 850 RPM produce flicker free electric and the engines sound real nice as well.  In fact I think the engines sound better at 850 RPM not strained like the 6/1 sounds.


General Discussion / Re: HOWTO: Post pictures in the forum
« on: January 13, 2017, 09:54:24 PM »
Another one from photobucket[imghttp://][/img]

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: 6/1 CS Dating
« on: November 25, 2015, 12:31:39 AM »
There is another way of dating a genuine Lister CS engine.  This information has been copied and pasted from the UK Lister CSOG  and it goes like this.

You can always look on the crankcase, on the opposite side to the
injection pump, right above the crankshaft bearing housing you will
find foundry casting marks telling you the month and year that it was
cast. It will be something like 15-A-53
Where 15 is the day or batch number, A is the month, where A=Jan,
B=Feb etc and 53 is the year.


Things I want to Buy / Re: WTB: Crank bearing housing, etc
« on: August 31, 2015, 10:02:43 PM »

I live in the UK and you can have a crank bearing housing for nothing.  Only problem is postage I looked a while ago an it would have cost about 70 to post it to you. So I didnt bother mentioning it.  However if you have a way of collecting it ie friend coming over who could bring it back for or another method.  You are quite welcome to it.


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