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Messages - listeroil

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Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Water or steam injection
« on: February 21, 2020, 05:49:46 PM »
Regarding your fuel pump, I'm not sure how the Cs pump handles pressure.
I dont think the pump will be a problem with the injection pump.  The electric fuel pump is 3 to 5 psi and the only place the fuel can go is into the barrel of the IP and that is precision machined to pump the fuel to the injector at a lot higher pressure  Here is what it says in CAV injection pump manual.

Regarding water injection rates how does 16 seconds on and 64 seconds off sound?


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Water or steam injection
« on: February 21, 2020, 02:51:25 PM »
Thats very interesting about the wifi circuit board but I dont think it will have the range the genny shed is at least 100ft from the router.  However I will talk to my son and see what we can do as it might be nice to see the information on the computer.  Unfortunately I do not do the Arduino stuff myself.  My son tells me what to buy I buy it he connects it up writes the program and if we are lucky it works. Below is the transmitting module that I bought last week because my son connected the last one the wrong way round and all the magic smoke disappeared.  That  one did work with enough range to start and stop and was being rebuilt to do the monitoring.

Ebay item no 372740389720
● Power supply voltage : 3.2 V -- 5.5 V.(if the modules working long hours in emission state, suggested that when the power supply voltage is greater than 4.5 V , you need concatenating a 1N4007 diode to avoid module built-in LDO got fever)
● Default communication distance : about 600 m (communication distance is adjustable up to 1000 m, air baud rate 5000 BPS).
● Default idle current: 16 ma (modules in different working mode of different current).
● Module size: 27.8mm*14.4mm*4mm.
● Operating frequency range (433.4 473.0 MHz, as many as 100 communication channel) maximum 100 mw fired power (can be set)
● Module supporting software upgrades.
● Default factory Settings: working mode FU3, baud rate 9600 BPS, communication channel CH001 (433.4 M)
433Mhz HC-12 SI4463 Wireless Serial Port Module 1000m Replace Bluetooth TE296


Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Water or steam injection
« on: February 18, 2020, 11:56:44 PM »
I've been running lister cs engines for 19 years now the first couple of years only on red diesel.  Then I found out about running them on vegoil and started using that.  At the time it was cheaper than red so I ran on new vegoil from tesco's.  Then for some unbeknown reason the price rocketed up to more than red diesel price.  Thats when I started collecting WVO from various sources.  This was not clean and what I did was leave it to stand for at least a month then decant the runny stuff off the top.  I have never dried the oil just used the runny stuff as is the only filtering was a jcloth wrapped round a 5 micron filter in the water filter assembly and the filter close to the engine.  The jcloth works great catches all the sediment before it gets to the 5 micron polypropylene water filter.  When it blocks I just change the jcloth and use the old one to start the fire.  However I now get my oil from just one supplier a firm that make crisps It is lovely and clean no whites.  I get it in an IBC 1000 litres at a time for 200 which is better than the 30p per litre I was paying before for dirty oil and  a lot easier to collect, they load it into my trailer with a forklift.  I will test this oil for water content.

It is not the piston ring thats corroded its the piston itself the area above the top ring. When the carbon is cleaned off the side of the piston above the top ring quite a lot of aluminium is missing scored doesn't happen when running on red.

My reason for using the Arduino is to have a wireless controlled start and stop. I suffer from COPD and have only 24% lung capacity and the generator is about 100ft away and its just to far to walk to switch it on or off I am virtually housebound.  Even though its a startomatic I dont like that function and have dispensed with it.  The plan is to have a wireless camera in the genny shed check there's nobody there and start it with a press of the button in my cabin.  Using the Arduino as an engine starter has some advantages.  First I can spin the engine over decompressed for a few seconds then drop the decompressor for a less stress start.  Second monitor the voltage and switch on the output contactor when the voltage reaches say 200 volts.  Also when switching off switch the output contactor off before actually switching off the engine.  Its not a good idea to have loads connected when the engine runs down.  Also got a current sensor as well as the voltage and water temperature sensor.  All these details can be transmitted back to the handset and be displayed on screen.  I should point out that my son is the one who knows how to program and build the Arduino.  Not me I just do the mechanicals.

I am in the process of setting up a pair of generators that way I can run one until it needs its oil changed.  Then swap over to the other generator until that needs an oil change.  This will give me an instant back up if either one fails.  Ive been on a hunt for years to get 2 good 8/1 engined Startomatics and now have a nice pair.  The second one has a 1981 engine that appears to be in good condition.  Just the gen head needs some attention new anti vibration rubbers new brushes and top box rewiring to push button start.

Regarding the water injection my pump delivers 6.5 litres per hour this equates to 108ml per minute I've calculated that the genny on full load will use 2.25 litres fuel per hour.  So if I run the pump for 2 minutes on and 8 minutes off this will give me 1.296 litres per hour.

I think I am going to do the twin tank system on one of the gennys because I have all the bits to do it and its been a long ongoing plan which is nearly there.  I think I can achieve quite a quick changeover see enclosed picture of system I intend to use.

This is a picture of the charge switch off a 4.5 kw Startomatic top box.

Have you located a control box choke yet as I have a spare one that I dont need.


Original Lister Cs Engines / Water or steam injection
« on: February 16, 2020, 08:03:06 PM »
I would like some advice about water injection please.  I will explain my situation I live off grid in the UK have been doing so for the last 19 years.  For most of that time I have been running old Lister 8/1 engined Startomatics on WVO. No preheating just a thermostat to get the engine up to temperature quick.  One thing I have noticed is that when I first get an engine thats been run on diesel all its life it starts first compression.  However when starting on WVO it takes progressively more turning over to start on cold WVO.  Not a big problem because its electric start.  But not ideal also when doing a decoke I find a lot of erosion occurring above the top piston ring. So I fit a new piston and away we go again.

I have managed to acquire an almost brand new 1974 8/1 Startomatic.  It was bought in 1974 when we had 3 months of power cuts to provide power for a Mansion house in Oxfordshire.  It looks brand new no wear on anything.  Probably done about 300 hours in total.  With this bit of kit I want to set it up right.  I've cast a concrete base and bolted it to that.  It runs so smooth on red diesel at the moment.

I intend to start on red and after 15 mins when the engine is warm changeover to WVO run on that until shut down then change over to red for long enough to start on red diesel next start.  This will be controlled by an Arduino.  Before I run on WVO I intend to fit water injection again controlled by the Arduino.  The Arduino will be used to control a mains operated peristaltic pump this way I can control exactly the amount of water injected per given load.  The 8/1 uses about 500ml fuel per Kwh. 

So the question is how much water to inject the same amount as fuel or less?
Another thought would steam injection be better?  Because I am using a peristaltic pump I could wrap 3/16 copper brake pipe round the exhaust and inject steam in to the inlet manifold.

Engines / Re: Turned out that my Lister wasn't ST2 :-)
« on: November 14, 2019, 06:36:22 PM »
No dont go just adjusting the revs to increase the voltage thats not the way to do it. It is quite easy to increase the voltage there is a big fat wirewound resistor in the top box with a adjustable strap around it.  Slide it one way the voltage goes up slide it the other way and the voltage goes down.  But before you do that you do need to set the engine revs so that the electric output is at 50Hz.  The best way to do that is use a Plug In Electricity Power Consumption Meter Energy Monitors Watt kwh Analyzer     (eBay item number:153614689748)  Adjust the engine revs so that the meter reads 50Hz then adjust the voltage on the big resistor.  Heres a picture of a 4.5Kw startomatic topbox with the big fat resistor that you use to adjust the voltage yours should be similar.


This is from a genuine 1971 Lister manual and shows

17 thou inlet and 32 thou exhaust for the 6/1 engine

8 thou inlet and 8 thou exhaust for the 8/1 engine

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: oil seal Lister CS8-1
« on: September 30, 2019, 04:27:22 PM »
It might be a good idea to remove the injection pump before you try.  It was about 10 years ago when I last did it and I cant remember if I removed it first.  Its only a couple of bolts anyway and easier to do when connected to the engine.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: oil seal Lister CS8-1
« on: September 30, 2019, 03:13:09 PM »
No need to remove anything inside the case if all you want is the case off to replace the seal.  Just the 3 studs and injection pump pipes and a clevis pin on the external linkage.  Good point about aligning it with one of the flywheel holes before you start

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: oil seal Lister CS8-1
« on: September 28, 2019, 12:19:40 AM »
No need to remove anything else.  Just the 3 studs and you can slide it off the camshaft and wriggle it past the flywheel.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: oil seal Lister CS8-1
« on: September 27, 2019, 07:39:28 PM »
There is no need to remove the flywheel.  It is possible to remove the camshaft injection pump cover by removing the studs with the cover in position.  Double nut the studs to remove them.  I have done this on a genuine 8/1 no problem.

Lister Market Place (things for Sale) / Re: LEF Document Store - thoughts
« on: September 10, 2019, 12:24:41 AM »
Brilliant idea please do it. If these are of any interest all in PDF format I will donate them to a free LEF library.
4 CS engine manuals years 1936  1938  1953 and finally 1971.
2 CS engined startomatic manuals 4.5kW 1969 and 2.5kW  1952.
Book 583-167 Diesel generating plant for VA. 6/1, 8/1, 12/2 and 16/2.
Book 584-367 Diesel generating plant  Push button remote controlled for VA 6/1 etc.
Book 585-267 A.C. Automatic remote control generating sets for VA 6/1 81 12/2 etc.
Book 213-539  Alternator sets 15 K.V.A.
Book 680-1264 Startomatic air cooled generating set with HA2 air cooled engine.
Book 442-163  1.75kW to 4.5kW AC generating plants Types SL air cooled diesel.
Book 495-956  1,5kW A.C. Startomatic Electric generating plant
CAV  Fuel injection pumps
CAV  Fuel injection nozzles and holders Instruction manual for models S T U & V

Bio-diesel Fuel / Re: Expain to me why you bother to make bio diesel
« on: August 30, 2019, 05:37:16 PM »
My reason for making biodiesel is that I have 1000s of litres of whites.  I collect wvo from local restaurants I leave it to stand for a couple of weeks then decant the nice runny oil off the top.  That whats I run the 8/1 startomatic with.  Over the 10+ years I have been using the Lister I've acquired a mountain of dirty wet rancid whites which is no good for fuel as its nearly solid.  So I make biodiesel out of the whites. it turn thick horrible gunge into nice runny clean fuel that I can use in my td5 engined landrover.  I am allowed to use up to 2500 litres of tax free biodiesel a year.  So thats my reason for making biodiesel and the engine runs better as well.

Everything else / Re: Fuel lines - Banjo Union & Bolt
« on: July 01, 2019, 01:01:19 AM »
Hi Ariel
Welcome to the forum. I dont think you will find a 1/2 unf banjo with a compression fitting for 3/8 pipe.  Thats a big pipe diameter to be using. I think with a pump you could easily use 5/16 or 8mm.   Ive posted these pictures of a Lister alpha engine that I rebuilt a couple of years ago for a local fisherman. Its a 2000cc engine and only uses 8mm pipe and the connections to the pump and filter are tube nut and olive. The other pipe the black rubber one was supplied by our local hydraulic pipe maker. They can be very helpful and have access to gazillions of fittings.  Also nothing wrong with using a flanged banjo fitting and some nice new braided hose after all that is what they are made for like eBay item number:283371149494

Lister Based Generators / Re: 8-1 START-O-MATIC
« on: June 30, 2019, 09:51:51 PM »
Hi Kenneth
I will PM you my personal details and we can arrange a meet.  I can probably get you a free trip round Eden.  I have a friend who works there and employees are allowed to admit friends and family for nothing.

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