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Changfa Engines / Re: Chagfa 175 CHP unit - First Test
« on: July 17, 2021, 12:50:01 PM »
I am currently putting together a Cogen system using the same engine! Have not seen many around in water cooled versions.
My goal is for heating the home and to get max heat out of the engine as well as having the power as a bonus. The power can go to offsetting the power use of a fan heater or the AC. I am not sure it will be enough but if not, I have a bigger engine and motor I can use but I thought I'd try the smaller and easier setup first.
I have been looking for a Lister for years but the only ones I see are either 3 Hp or Very expensive and usually, both. This engine came up recently from a local seller at a good price so I didn't let it go. I am also tempted to look at a 2 or 3 Cyl Kubota which are not cheap but would be quiet and last forever as well as have more than ample power for my needs.
Could you give some more details of your Oil system Modification Please? I would like to be able to run 24/7 and more oil and cleaner oil would be a help. I should also make provision for easy draining with an extended outlet as well.
Instead of a generator, I am going to use a 4 Kw Induction motor and hook it to the mains and over drive it so it back feeds. I set it up the other day in a C2C config for testing and got just shy of 2Kw out of it. I believe I should get a lot more out of it over driven to the mains as the efficiency goes up. From what I have read which is hard to find info on, I think it might be about 80% motor capacity which would be the engines Max output anyway. If anyone can enlighten me on this or has links to info on these setups I'd be appreciative for the heads up as I can't find much on it. I looked at this years ago but have forgotten more than I remember now I want to put it to practice.
I was thinking of a better ( quieter) air cleaner but as it will be in the sound deadening enclosure which I have built a frame for and will insulate, I don't think It will be important. I am undecided if I should rubber mount The engine and generator or put rubber mounting feet on the whole arrangement?
I was going to do a similar plate setup to what you have but I was going to pump the coolant through the hoses and radiator in another box near the house and duct the hot air in through a window. Using the FPHE is something I hadn't thought of but it would require 2 Pumps, one for the engine and one for the space heating.
To capture the exhaust heat I wanted to make a simple Tube in tube heat exchanger for the exhaust but am now wondering if a 60 Plate FPHE would have enough flow for the exhaust? It would probably need cleaning now and then but no biggie, carbon comes out easy .
One thing I have forgotten is how much heat I should get from the engine. If the power is 3 Kw, should the heat not be about the same? I was of the mind that an engine efficiency is in 3rds. 33% Power, 33% heat and 33% mechanical and noise losses. 5 Kw total output in heat and electricity would be ideal for my home and conditions. I am hoping that the enclosure I am building will make the thing quiet enough for operation during the night. I will add a car muffler after the HE on the outside of the box which should take care of that but these machines have considerable mechanical clatter which is my main concern.
If I could get around ( a little under of course with losses) 3 Kw of heat and 3Kw of power, that would be about what I would like to have on tap. I am also thinking to have the coolant return through a water heater tank which will provide insulation for storage. If I don't need the full output of heat, I can store it in the water heater tank so when I want to fire up in the mornings, I have heat in reserve. I would look at a bypass valve so I can go straight from the engine to the water tank or go between the 2.
If this setup does not provide enough heat then I have a 12 HP engine of this type as well as a 12 Kw 3 Phase motor I can use. The 12 is radiator Cooled but I can't see any hoses or water pump so I think is still a basic hooper configuration with the radiator stuck on top.
That will be harder to move around as the engine is 125 Kg and the motor 170 kg and have to be further from the house due to the weight so more losses but I intend to run waste oil to make the setup economical as I need a fair bit of heat in the winter so I can't be too concerned about that as long as there is enough heat and power.
If my setup comes out as well engineered as yours I will be very happy. Your engine sounds much quieter than mine mechanically so I might pull the Pump out and see if there are any shims I can take out to pull the timing back a bit. Thinking about it the thing may be a bit advanced going by the sound.
My goal is for heating the home and to get max heat out of the engine as well as having the power as a bonus. The power can go to offsetting the power use of a fan heater or the AC. I am not sure it will be enough but if not, I have a bigger engine and motor I can use but I thought I'd try the smaller and easier setup first.
I have been looking for a Lister for years but the only ones I see are either 3 Hp or Very expensive and usually, both. This engine came up recently from a local seller at a good price so I didn't let it go. I am also tempted to look at a 2 or 3 Cyl Kubota which are not cheap but would be quiet and last forever as well as have more than ample power for my needs.
Could you give some more details of your Oil system Modification Please? I would like to be able to run 24/7 and more oil and cleaner oil would be a help. I should also make provision for easy draining with an extended outlet as well.
Instead of a generator, I am going to use a 4 Kw Induction motor and hook it to the mains and over drive it so it back feeds. I set it up the other day in a C2C config for testing and got just shy of 2Kw out of it. I believe I should get a lot more out of it over driven to the mains as the efficiency goes up. From what I have read which is hard to find info on, I think it might be about 80% motor capacity which would be the engines Max output anyway. If anyone can enlighten me on this or has links to info on these setups I'd be appreciative for the heads up as I can't find much on it. I looked at this years ago but have forgotten more than I remember now I want to put it to practice.
I was thinking of a better ( quieter) air cleaner but as it will be in the sound deadening enclosure which I have built a frame for and will insulate, I don't think It will be important. I am undecided if I should rubber mount The engine and generator or put rubber mounting feet on the whole arrangement?
I was going to do a similar plate setup to what you have but I was going to pump the coolant through the hoses and radiator in another box near the house and duct the hot air in through a window. Using the FPHE is something I hadn't thought of but it would require 2 Pumps, one for the engine and one for the space heating.
To capture the exhaust heat I wanted to make a simple Tube in tube heat exchanger for the exhaust but am now wondering if a 60 Plate FPHE would have enough flow for the exhaust? It would probably need cleaning now and then but no biggie, carbon comes out easy .
One thing I have forgotten is how much heat I should get from the engine. If the power is 3 Kw, should the heat not be about the same? I was of the mind that an engine efficiency is in 3rds. 33% Power, 33% heat and 33% mechanical and noise losses. 5 Kw total output in heat and electricity would be ideal for my home and conditions. I am hoping that the enclosure I am building will make the thing quiet enough for operation during the night. I will add a car muffler after the HE on the outside of the box which should take care of that but these machines have considerable mechanical clatter which is my main concern.
If I could get around ( a little under of course with losses) 3 Kw of heat and 3Kw of power, that would be about what I would like to have on tap. I am also thinking to have the coolant return through a water heater tank which will provide insulation for storage. If I don't need the full output of heat, I can store it in the water heater tank so when I want to fire up in the mornings, I have heat in reserve. I would look at a bypass valve so I can go straight from the engine to the water tank or go between the 2.
If this setup does not provide enough heat then I have a 12 HP engine of this type as well as a 12 Kw 3 Phase motor I can use. The 12 is radiator Cooled but I can't see any hoses or water pump so I think is still a basic hooper configuration with the radiator stuck on top.
That will be harder to move around as the engine is 125 Kg and the motor 170 kg and have to be further from the house due to the weight so more losses but I intend to run waste oil to make the setup economical as I need a fair bit of heat in the winter so I can't be too concerned about that as long as there is enough heat and power.
If my setup comes out as well engineered as yours I will be very happy. Your engine sounds much quieter than mine mechanically so I might pull the Pump out and see if there are any shims I can take out to pull the timing back a bit. Thinking about it the thing may be a bit advanced going by the sound.