Quote from: ixtow on April 22, 2006, 01:56:39 AM

Quote from: GuyFawkes on April 21, 2006, 10:53:44 PM

I know everything, and I hate Mike, everything he says is wrong.  I say that [insert wild baseless statement here] is a bad idea because the original Lister design didn't have it.  In fact, I hate modern alloy steel too.  I bet Mike invented it and infused it with Demons, he's soooo Evil!

We hear you, but it just makes us like Mike more.

Except I NEVER said

I know everything
I hate mike
Everything mike says is wrong
I didn't make ANY wild baseless statements
I don't hate modern alloys

etc etc etc

so basically what was the point of your post, apart from demonstrating an inability to read what is actually written on a page?

To illustrate my even greater inability to contrive a way to allow your statements to be worth reading.

And, to be a wiseass.

I really can't find much else to do with your posts in this thread.  I thought people might get a laugh out of it and this 4 page phalic comparison contest could at least bear us some entertainment value.

I've been PMed sufficient information to close the topic this thread was originally started for.

Debating about belts is a large waste of time.  Most Automotive Serpentine Belts, even if they recomment replacing them, will outlive the car.  V-Belts have no such luck.  I ran my 1991 Ford Mustang into the ground (I beat the livin' hell out of that poor car), 266,000 miles, underwater 2 times, etc...  And I still had the ORIGINAL FACTORY serpentine belt on it.  Not even showing cracks.

My Toyota Camry eats it's v-belts about every 70,000 miles.

This is all the information I need, as far as belts go.

The idea that there is no difference is a Wild and Baseless Statement.  Save the "but in this application...."  If it lasts so much longer, and performs so much better in a harsh environment, a milder one can only extend it's life even more.

We use them for a reason.  I'd use a v-belt if I couldn't get my hands on a serpentine.  Cheaper (~$2 from a junk yard), last longer (example already cited), Load bearing is not significantly reduced, and many argue it is increased.

As far as oil causing corrosion... I thought I squirted a bit on all my metal tools to keep them from rusting, and it seems to work rather well.  Even if there are oxidants disolved/suspended in the oil, it sure beats being exposed to the air/environment.  Again, this argument lacks a rational perspective, and is thusly: Wild and Baseless.

Why am I still in this thread?  I hope I'm not the only one to ask.

This message is not intended as an attack, tho it may be percieved by some to be.  I'm merely calling BS where I see it.  I'd do the same to a bogus advertisement.  Is the lack of commercial interest going to make this somehow "inappropriate" where it's acceptable when a profit is involved?

It'll sure cost a lot of money when I use Water for Lube because that evil Oil is soooo corrosive....

I promise not to post in this thread again.  I'm too rational to to spend any more of my time arguing over common-sense.

I have a 16/1 Satyajeet that I'm very pleased with. It runs about 18 hrs a day almost every day. At times it has run 24/7 for a few days at a time. It turns at just a shade over 750 rpm (762) powering a 12kw ST Head. There is a good thread on just how this engine preformed during a sub-zero stint running 24/7 for 139 hrs.
 http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/8541084231/r/5321010331#5321010331
I don't know the diameter of the flywheels on a 20/1 but the 16/1 has 23 5/8" wheels and is rated for full power at 1000 rpm.
Ken Gardner

VERY useful, thanks a ton.  I'm sold on the GM-90.

From what I gather, I'm fairly certain that the 20/1 has 30 inch flywheels, and is rated at 750RPM.  There is a 22/1 at 800RPM, and a 16/1 at 670RPM: all the same design.  Mike said it had a 6.125" bore and a 8" stroke.  Aluminum piston, which some like and some don't, but the matter seems entirely puritan, as they aren't having piston problems or reduced longevity.  If it hops less, I'm happy.

I plan to get this model and run it at 690RPM with a 12KW ST.  Will likely end up cuting my own pulley for this odd speed.  According to my spreadsheet:

RPM	HP	CYL	Raw KW	Raw KW -10%	1800RPM Pulley Dia	3600RPM Pulley Dia	Rim Speed in MPH
690	17	1	12.6769	11.4092	11.5000	5.7500	61.58230

As for the "GM-90s aren't standard" or "but it's not the original" argument...  Nothing about a Lister is Standard in the States...  My application is purely utilitarian, nothing nostalgic about it for me.  I like the Improvements.

The line between 'information' and 'informercial' is sometimes a foggy one, but leaves a sour taste in this customer's mouth.....

I didn't read "Call my number in the next 5 minutes, and I'll include this amazing Ginsu Knife for FREE!!!" anywhere in that post...  Just useful information that isn't on the manufacturer's website, adn that none of us here would have had he not posted it.

I have no problem with recieving useful information about a product that I am interested in, regardless of the source.

Were it not for your posts ribbing him about being a dealer, I would never have known he was the man I needed to talk to about buying a GM-90 20/1.

Interesting.  I was curious about the edge speed at 1000 RPM.  I have not yet seen the published rated speed of the 20/1 though I gather the flywheels is 30 inches, and actually extends beyond the bottom of the crank housing.  You have to set it on blocks or it'll be sitting on the flywheels.  Ha!

For some reason I want to say the 20/1 is rated around the 750RPM area... math time.  Spreadsheet says:

30*3.14159/12*750=5890.48

30*3.14159/12*1000=Oh hell no, don't even think about it.

Since a mile is 5280 feet... This is going well over 60mph, if it were a tire on a car.  At a weight of 300lbs per flywheel...  I have to ask myself how cast iron holds together at this speed.  Someone who knows more about 1) are the satyajeet flywheels plain ol' cast iron 2) what does the physics textbook say about the forces exerted upon the flywheel at this speed/mass. (please don't forget that the entire weight of the flywheel is not 100% on the outermost edge, I've seen deceptive calculations that do not consider this) 3) how/why does it not explode like a giant grenade?

More than a few poeple own them, so there must be something to it.

Am I silly for thinking that anything above 650RPM, like these 1000RPM 14/1 ideas, would be less reliable than the original 650RPM?  If slow speed is why they last so long, then increasing the speed by 30% just bugs me.  Am I just overthinking it?

I see where this is going.  Thanks.   

By the time I have the money, they won't be around....  I suppose I'll be left to my own devices.  The design of the lister is a good place for me to start, I guess I'll just have to come up with my own design based on it.

I just ofund this forum a few days ago.  The Government seems bent on wiping out any means of self-sufficiency...  First our guns, now our listers...  this is sad.

anyway...

Has any consensus been reached on how we might get these things into the states "legally?"  In parts?  Make a few parts locally?

I was also wondering how regular car tires would fare as a flywheel.  They're common, and balancing is simple....  For the slow speeds, RPM is pretty similar to driving on the highway...  Just a thought, if bringing in parts was considered an option.  Skipping the weightof the flywheels would be a boost for overseas shipping rates, for sure.

Could we not have many parts here that would suffice?  Valves?  Gears?  Import only those things which cannot be economically acquired locally?  If would give us domestic replacement stock too.  Maybe one of these Builders will work with us for a hybridized design that uses dimensionally similar parts that we already have here?