Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - silvertop

Pages: [1]
Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Lister CS fuel filter cartridge
« on: June 12, 2022, 11:35:50 PM »
Well, I got the Honda fuel filter cartridge to work with a bit of messing around. Drilled a hole in the blind end for the retaining bolt to pass through and sealed it with a rubber seal. The filter was too short but easily held in place with a spring and a few washers. So far the filter seems to be working OK. The Honda engine filter was the only one I was able to track down that had the right OD and ID.
Thanks to those that contributed suggestions.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Lister CS fuel filter cartridge
« on: June 01, 2022, 11:28:52 PM »
Hi 38ac and ajaffa1,
38ac, the two 1934 10/2 you have are also early forth year production engines and very collectable. Your comment regarding an in-tank filter would definitely work. I'm currently using an inline filter as a temporary fix. Bob, thanks for the reference to the filter on ebay - I'll get the dimensions and see if this will certainly looks the part.

The engine has spent the last 57 years running a small alternator up in the mountains at the previous owners ski cabin, so it was only used for a few weeks each year.

Original Lister Cs Engines / Re: Lister CS fuel filter cartridge
« on: June 01, 2022, 10:16:07 AM »
Thanks Bob,
I have a couple of spare wick-type filters that I could bolt on in the usual spot on the cylinder block but this would leave a gaping hole in the head as this filter has a full water jacket and shares hot water circulating through the head. It also has the original Bosch wet injector, a Bosch fuel pump, and a 2.25" big end. Fortunately, the main bearings are 2".

The engine is in surprisingly good condition and runs very well. My aim is to preserve much of the originality of this engine as it's a first year production 3/1 and was sold to the NZ importers on 27th October 1933. I'm not sure how many CS 3/1 engines were made in 1933 as the same number sequence was also shared by the CS 5/1, however, it's unlikely there will be many first year production CS 3/1 engines surviving. Incidently, the first two CS 3/1 engines produced were both shipped to NZ, but I don't know if they still exist.

The closest filter cartridge I could find that has acceptable dimensions is made for a Honda engine but unfortunately it's blind on one end. Anyway, I've ordered one of these filter cartridges and should have a better idea if it can be made to work when I receive it in a few days - might be time to get the BIG hammer out!

Original Lister Cs Engines / Lister CS fuel filter cartridge
« on: May 23, 2022, 11:57:43 PM »
I have a 1933 Lister CS 3hp engine with the fuel filter mounted on the head. The fuel filter unit has a water jacket and is heated by hot water from the head (see attached photos). I still have the remnants of the original fuel filter 'cartridge' but its useful life ended at least six decades ago.

Presently, I've removed the old fuel filter 'cartridge' and I'm using an in-line fuel filter, however, I would like to adapt the original fuel filter to use a modern exchangeable fuel filter cartridge. The cartridge would have to have the following dimensions:

Maximum outer diameter 67mm - could be as small as 50mm
Maximum length 130mm - could be a little shorter
Minimum inner diameter 14mm - could be larger

I've tried searching a couple of filter manufacturers websites, but without success.

Does anyone know of a suitable fuel filter cartridge of the right dimensions?

Original Lister Cs Engines / Lister CS 3/1 Spec 208/2
« on: April 04, 2022, 10:54:28 PM »
Have just bought an old Lister CS 3/1 with serial number 9064 and Spec 208/2.
I have not come across Spec 208/2 before. Can anyone shed light on how this Spec differs from the more common 208/12, 208/13 etc?

I appreciate this is a very old thread, but I'll take a chance.

I have just purchased, but not yet picked up, a Lister CS 3/1 with serial number CS 9064 and Spec number 208/2.  It would appear the build date was likely 1933. The 3/1's were first built in 1933.

It also has the fuel filter mounted on the side of the head as described by Mark (above).

The COV handle is bakerlite typical of the early CS listers.

The previous owner advises the engine runs well and it looks to be in good condition for its age. It was used to run a small alternator since 1965.

Does anyone have any info on the head mounted fuel filter?

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: January 06, 2021, 10:59:11 PM »
Thanks for your advice 38ac. This is what I was hoping for.
This is the only aluminum piston CS engine I have. I had not considered the aluminum piston as a noise source. My other CS engines have cast iron pistons, so I may well be unfairly comparing the noise of different engines. The noise occurs just before the exhaust valve opens and sounds similar to my air-cooled engines that do not have a noise-dampening water jacket, but they do all have aluminum pistons.

I replaced the gudgeon pin (wrist pin) and bushes and they work as intended with no tight spots. Lubrication holes are clean. Early on, I also wondered if the con rod could be bent, but I couldn't detect any bend and there is no obvious un-even wear to the piston skirt. I suppose it could be piston wear and I'll check again next time I have the engine apart.

I don't have a measurement for the piston - cylinder gap on the CS 8/1. Do you have any guidance on this?
Are aluminum pistons on the CS engines thought to wear faster than on other engines?

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: January 06, 2021, 10:06:23 AM »
Cheers Gadget,
I would love an easy fix, but they rarely seem to come along. I looked for any marks on the top of the pistons potentially indicative of valve - piston contact, but there is nothing. Even with the exhaust valve decompressed there is nothing to indicate contact.

I don't have a stethoscope and my best efforts with a finger in one ear and my deaf ear up to the engine indicate the sound is coming from the upper barrel area - just where you would expect a diesel knock to come from. I have heard enough lower end; small end/gudgeon; and valve noises to discount these. Also, I have replaced the big end bearings, small end bushes, gudgeon pin, valve guides, valves, valve springs etc. As I mentioned earlier, these engines do not have any rings below the gudgeon pin, however, there does not appear to be significant piston wear. In addition, the bore still has some of its factory cross-hatch hone marks, even at the top of the bore (the bore is not chrome plated i.e. post 'Listard').

I don't know if backlash is likely to be an issue and I assume Lister made allowances for backlash in their gear design and placement. I suspect the level of engineering precision in these engines was perhaps a whisker or two less than that in Swiss watches. The timing gears and idler are in good condition with no appreciable wear.

The knocking noise occurs just before the exhaust valve opens so overlap can't be a contributing issue.

I also wondered if the push rods / tappets were perhaps hanging up and getting slapped by the cam, and this contributed to why I replaced the valve springs, however, both tappets and rods move freely and are well lubricated. The rollers in the tappets similarly work perfectly. I did remove the inspection door and look at the cam - tappet contact while turning the flywheels with the injector out and they work as they should without any hanging or slap.

As I suggested on yesterdays post, I'm now wondering about a reduced bump volume due to insufficient valve seat recess; or replaced valves that have a slightly different head shape / thickness. I imagine this could have a similar effect to carbon build in the upper cylinder or on top of the piston.

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: January 06, 2021, 03:37:10 AM »
Thanks for your input gadget,
This drum of diesel is fairly fresh. I fill the drums from the local fuel depot which is run by a major country-wide company. I use fuel from the same drum in numerous other engines as well as my vehicle and tractor without issue. The tractor and vehicle are both common rail which tends to be more sensitive to fuel quality.
This CS 8/1 engine has been fueled with diesel from different drums. I think it very unlikely fuel is the issue here.

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: January 05, 2021, 09:04:01 PM »
I have been wondering if the valve seats are less recessed than they should be, but still sufficient to allow effective decompression when the push rod is lifted, and sufficient to avoid a piston valve interaction.
If the seats are less recessed than they should be this would reduce the bump volume even though the bump clearance is within specifications. I suppose a reduction in bump volume may lead to changed ignition and possibly a knock?

I note the manual advises valve heads must not be less than 1.39mm and not more than 2.54mm under the face of the cylinder head. I did not check this measurement on my engine.

I could test this by placing more paper 'shims' under the barrel, thereby increasing the bump clearance and bump volume. This may not happen for a while as I've just started to do a rebuild of my Lister HB2 engine.

Anyone else had a similar issue before? - comments welcome.

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: January 05, 2021, 07:35:31 PM »
Thanks for your input 38ac,
The knock is fairly consistent and gets a bit louder as the rack is opened and it continues to knock if the rack is closed but diminishes in volume. It disappears as the engine starts to die. The CS 8/1 is governed to 850rpm.  When I slow it to 650rpm the noise is still louder than my other CS Listers (governed to 650rpm) but not as loud as it is at 850rpm (I use a laser rev counter).

As mentioned earlier, the CS 8/1 does not have a compression change over valve.

Flywheels and keys are tight, this was one of the first things I checked. I subsequently removed the flywheels in order to remove the cam and check the cam / idler / crank timing marks and ensured flywheels / keys were tight when re-assembled. The CS 8/1 has the heavy flywheels, although slightly smaller diameter than the heavy flywheels on my CS 6/1. The concept of a flywheel coming off mid-flight and doing a high-velocity tour of my shed is something I prefer to avoid. When I slow the engine down the the knock clearly occurs just before the exhaust valve opens.

The bump clearance was checked as mentioned previously.

I have tried advancing and retarding the spill timing beyond the flywheel mark and it did not make any difference to the noise volume. The tappet and roller for the fuel pump appear to be in good condition with no sign of wear. I stripped the fuel pump and it is in good condition. The element looks to be good, as does the rack, and and all marks line up as they should.

I had considered that perhaps my hearing was becoming more sensitive with increasing age, but alas, this is not the case.

Engines / Re: Noisy CS 8/1
« on: December 31, 2020, 08:02:59 AM »
Thanks for the comments Mike.
All parts of the engine were cleaned including all parts of the head and piston. There wasn't much in the way of carbon build-up prior to cleaning anyway.
The CS 8/1 engines do not have a compression change over system. There is a plug where the compression change over valve would normally screw in and it appears the CS 8/1 only operates in what would be the higher compression mode of the CS 6/1. I haven't attempted to remove the plug, although the injection chamber has been pressure cleaned and does not appear to have any build-up.
I'm sure the head is original. I have the original manual and parts list that came with the engine. The previous owner also gave me the service record notes from since the engine was new and there is no mention of changing the head. Apart from the absence of the compression change-over valve, heads for the 6/1 and 8/1 appear to be identical. Incidentally, the CS 8/1 uses a tappet clearance of 0.20mm for both the exhaust and inlet valves compared to the 0.43mm (Inlet) and 0.82mm (exhaust) tappet clearances for the 6/1.

Fuel and oil are new. The fuel tank and fuel filter are also new. The CS 8/1 engines have a Delco 296 cartridge-type fuel filter compared to the old 'filter wick' of the CS 6/1 engine. I buy fuel in 205 litre drums and use the same fuel in all my diesel engines without issue. I use Penrite HPR Diesel10 10w-40 semisynthetic oil in all my diesel engines and they seem to like it.

There must be something I have missed that is causing the engine to make this 'knock' sound and hopefully someone will point out the "obvious".


Things I want to Buy / Re: HB3 block
« on: December 31, 2020, 05:12:25 AM »
I have a HB2 and a HB3 engines plus an original manual for HA and HB 2 & 3 cylinders with parts list. The part number for the crankcase does not differentiate between HB and HA engines i.e. it is same for both engines.

Engines / Noisy CS 8/1
« on: December 31, 2020, 03:24:22 AM »
Would appreciate help/comments on the following:
I have a Lister CS 8/1 (Made in England; not Listeroid). It runs noisy with a pronounced 'diesel knock-like' sound, more pronounced than my other CS Listers. I sounds similar to one of my air-cooled Listers.

I checked the timing, and spill time, and reset the tappets, to no avail. I have replaced the big end bearing, small end bearing, gudgeon pin, rings, valve guides, valves, valve springs, and injector nozzle. The big and small-end bearings did not need replacing but I did it anyway just to eliminate them as a cause. I have serviced the injector and fuel pump. In addition I have run it with a fuel pump and injector off another CS 6/1 engine but the noise is still there. I checked and cleaned all linkages (including governor) and they all work as intended. I have checked the bump clearance with 2 small lead balls and adjusted to ensure it's within specks (1.9 - 2.03mm). This model has one oil scraper ring above the gudgeon, but there does not appear to be significant piston wear. I have run it as slow as I can and the 'knock' occurs just before the exhaust valve opens as might be expected with a typical 'diesel knock'.

Incidently, the engines starts and runs very well.

This is a 1978 Lister 8/1 (one of the latter English CS 8/1 Listers) and the barrel has recessed corners with the 4 studs on the outside rather than incorporated into the barrel as on almost all earlier CS Listers (the barrel is the original English Lister barrel and still has the factory hone cross-hatch). Could this different shape of the barrel with the 4 studs on the outside be contributing to the 'knock' sound? Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Alternatively, is there something I may have missed?

Things I want to Buy / Lister HB3 coupling
« on: July 29, 2020, 09:53:33 PM »
I have a 1960 Lister HB3 engine that runs well. I'm looking for a flexible coupling that connects to the 3 bolts on the flywheel and will allow me to connect the engine to an alternator. Any suggestions?
I'm in New Zealand.

Pages: [1]