Puppeteer

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - scott p

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8
1
General Discussion / Re: Any steam engines left?
« on: June 11, 2022, 06:58:34 PM »
Speaking of steam, heard about this the other day. Back in time there was a device that used steam to shoot projectiles and was  apparently designed by Archimedes. Basically, one end of  the cannon is  heated and then  water is injected into the heated end and the resulting water explosion can boost the projectile out of the barrel.

What caught my attention was the possibility that this concept is only a couple steps away from a steam engine that doesn't require a boiler per say but would still need a robust expansion chamber. If a drop of water explodes instantly the water expands 1700% and could generate lots of torque to a steam engine under the right conditions or it could  blow up under the wrong conditions.

The solar people  use concentrated sunlight to  heat salts or oil, which do not develop pressure when heated and they hold their temperature better than water when under use.
 
My picture of a  expansion chamber would be a hollow tube closed at both ends with a  drilled rod through the center and connected to  an ejector at one end and the steam engine at the other. The tube would be full of hot oil.


2
General Discussion / Re: Would this work ?
« on: December 26, 2021, 06:34:48 AM »
Hey Bruce::

A  battery powered DC stick welder ?

Are you able to vary the arc relative to the thickness of the metal you are welding and how is that done??

 scott

3
General Discussion / Re: Would this work ?
« on: December 26, 2021, 02:00:11 AM »
All right then, thanks Bruce and cobbadog.
I was surprised see the diversity of this approach. I figured the variability of the system would need to be quite close.

I just finished a post on the other thread Bruce, feel free to ignore that.

4
Everything else / Re: Lead acid battery bank confusion
« on: December 26, 2021, 01:12:38 AM »
hello Bruce::
Hijacked or not a ton of information came out of it thanks to tanman.

Don't know if Tanman is still around but I was thinking, in order to perhaps salvage some batteries he could do a resistive load test with a rough look at the amp hour rating relative to the resistance of the resister . A hot water tank element or something with decent resistance.

On a personnel level (sorry tanman) I am most curious what your opinion would be on the following bit that was buried in my post. It seems like this approach would be a kind of stand alone super regulator that anyone along with some pocket change could use even with a plain generator.I would us identical smart chargers.

POSTED BY ERIC AND A COUPLE OTHERS

I've also seen some people suggest separate small, inexpensive 12V chargers for each battery. This will perform the same type of balancing as BMS or multi-bank chargers.

I have seen this too. How does one go about isolating each individual battery for this?

most of the newer smart chargers are isolated...note the most not all.

You don't have to isolate the batteries when charging, as long as the entire bank is being charged at once.

You can imagine that applying a single 12V charger to part of your battery pack will never complete charging the battery that it is hooked up to because the other batteries that are not charging would be adding load. In this situation, the hooked up battery would be taking considerable abuse by having all the current flowing through it to the other discharged batteries.

But if you had a separate 12V charger attached to each battery, charging all at once, each battery has enough autonomy(independent of other batteries), even while wired in series, to allow the charger to select the charging phase according to that battery's needs. So the first battery to the constant current cutoff would start the constant voltage phase with decreasing amps, even while it's neighbor was still taking full amps. You won't get much cross battery flow since they are all in a charging phase and should be close to the same voltage. Once all the batteries get to the constant voltage phase, there won't be any cross flow, because there is no voltage difference. As each charger drops into the float phase, reduced voltage and amps, there will be some minor cross flow, but since the amps are down across the entire pack, the amount of current flow should be negligible. As long as one charger is pushing current, all of the batteries would stay at a higher than resting voltage, but not really getting any more charge. Once the last charger shut off, the whole pack would return to it's resting voltage.

While there is some room for a massively out-of-balance battery to confuse some of the chargers, this strategy will keep the batteries top balanced by tailoring the charge to each battery, so a dramatically out-of-balance situation would be rare. If you noticed that one charger ran consistantly longer than the others, it would indicate a failing cell. This is similar to noting that one battery never hit peak voltage and starting shunting with BMS.

This is why the multi-bank chargers, hooked up to individual batteries that are connected in series (like ours) or parallel (house batteries in RV's and boats) work so well in keeping the batteries in balance.
Eric

5
General Discussion / Re: Would this work ?
« on: December 25, 2021, 05:59:43 PM »
Hey cobbadog:
Sorry about the Eric thing He wrote it. I am just curious about it. Seems like a good practical way of keeping batteries healthy automatically when connected in series for off grid or electric cars.

The other post is in the everything else section, subtitle lead acid  battery confusion. I posted there also last night to fix a goofup on my part. The post mostly focused on keeping batteries healthy by attaching separate battery regulators to each battery and then monitoring those regulators according to each battery. 

Apparently I cluttered it up too much and this subject got lost.

6
General Discussion / Would this work ?
« on: December 25, 2021, 08:35:53 AM »
This bit From a recent post went unnoticed and the post moved on from the original subject. I am interested in this and decided to re-post.

The context here is the possibility of using several identical smart chargers to charge several batteries in series at the same time using a generator to power the chargers. This author gave his opinion.

I've also seen some people suggest separate small, inexpensive 12V chargers for each battery. This will perform the same type of balancing as BMS or multi-bank chargers.

I have seen this too. How does one go about isolating each individual battery for this?

most of the newer smart chargers are isolated...note the most not all.

You don't have to isolate the batteries when charging, as long as the entire bank is being charged at once.

You can imagine that applying a single 12V charger to part of your battery pack will never complete charging the battery that it is hooked up to because the other batteries that are not charging would be adding load. In this situation, the hooked up battery would be taking considerable abuse by having all the current flowing through it to the other discharged batteries.

But if you had a separate 12V charger attached to each battery, charging all at once, each battery has enough autonomy, even while wired in series, to allow the charger to select the charging phase according to that battery's needs. So the first battery to the constant current cutoff would start the constant voltage phase with decreasing amps, even while it's neighbor was still taking full amps. You won't get much cross battery flow since they are all in a charging phase and should be close to the same voltage. Once all the batteries get to the constant voltage phase, there won't be any cross flow, because there is no voltage difference. As each charger drops into the float phase, reduced voltage and amps, there will be some minor cross flow, but since the amps are down across the entire pack, the amount of current flow should be negligible. As long as one charger is pushing current, all of the batteries would stay at a higher than resting voltage, but not really getting any more charge. Once the last charger shut off, the whole pack would return to it's resting voltage.

While there is some room for a massively out-of-balance battery to confuse some of the chargers, this strategy will keep the batteries top balanced by tailoring the charge to each battery, so a dramatically out-of-balance situation would be rare. If you noticed that one charger ran consistantly longer than the others, it would indicate a failing cell. This is similar to noting that one battery never hit peak voltage and starting shunting with BMS.

This is why the multi-bank chargers, hooked up to individual batteries that are connected in series (like ours) or parallel (house batteries in RV's and boats) work so well in keeping the batteries in balance.

Eric

7
Everything else / Re: Lead acid battery bank confusion
« on: December 25, 2021, 08:13:51 AM »
I see the post has moved on to other subjects but I noticed the do it yourself zener battery-lamp bit I posted was gibberish so I will post it as an attachment in case someone for whatever reason wants to look at it.

8
Everything else / Re: Lead acid battery bank confusion
« on: December 22, 2021, 06:14:24 PM »
This whole battery thing has got me all wired up. Found this on a EV sight.

================================================================
Zener-lamp regulator////

Lee Hart wrote on 2/26/03:

Here is a design I have been playing with for about a year. I have two working systems installed, and while not as aggressive as a full-blown Battery Management System, it does most of the job and at very low cost.
Battery regulators
Here is the wiring diagram of the battery regulators:
                                                  Battery -
                                                  5/16" 6 gauge
                                                  ring terminal
                                               ______________
                                              |     \    __  \
                                 _______________|/|__\  /  \  |
 Battery +                      |               |\|  /  \__/  |
 5/16" 6 gauge         ____|__  |  __|____    |_____/________/
 ring terminal        /    |  |_|_|  |    \
   ______________     \____|__|   |__|____/    zener diode
  /  __    /     |         | |     | |         1N5338B
 |  /  \  /__|/|_____________|_____|           5.1v 5w
 |  \__/  \  |\|
  \________\_____|        2 lamps in parallel
                          each #PR2
Charge Current Limiter
One simple way to force a charger to limit its output current is to put some resistance in series with its output. A light bulb is a good way to do this, because it acts like a crude constant-current source. The current only changes about 2:1 for a 10:1 change in voltage. For example, an ordinary 120vac 150w light bulb draws 150w / 120v = 1.25 amps at 120v, and about half this or 0.625 amps at 12v.
Wiring diagram:
                     lamp
                  120v 150w
                      __
                   __/  \__
                  |  \__/  |
                  |        |
charger+__________|___||/__|__________battery+
                COM1 /|| NC1
            ______
hot________|      |
           |      |____
120        |      |   _| relay
vac        |      |   _| 120vac
           |      |____| coil
neutral____|      |
           |______|
    children's "night light"
  (turns light on in darkness)

Parts list:
1 - 120v 150 watt light bulb and socket (choose wattage for desired limiting current)
1 - relay, SPDT contacts to match charger max amps and volts, 120vac coil (for example, Potter & Brumfield T92 series, DPDT 30a 240vac contacts, 120vac coil, Mouser 655-T92P11A22-120, $10.50)
1 - children's night light with photocell that turns it off when it senses light. Replace its lamp with the relay coil

Locate the night light inside the battery box where its photocell gets exposed to light from any of the battery sensors. When no light is detected, the relay coil is off, so its normally-closed contacts short the light bulb and the charger delivers full power to the batteries. When the first battery regulator lights, it pulls in the relay, which opens the contacts and puts the light bulb in series with the charger, limiting its current.

Usage

Add my zener lamp regulators across each battery.

Add a timer to turn off the charger after a set time. I like the Intermatic mechanical timers that you can set for 0-12 hours with a knob; they count down and turn off ($15-$20).

Next time you charge, watch the lamps on the regulators. When the first one comes on, set the timer to only run another hour or so. If the pack is out of balance, you'll probably find that after an hour, only a few lamps are on.

Do the same thing for the next few charge cycles. Each time, you'll find that more lamps will be on after that final 1 hour of charging, as the batteries get pushed closer to balance. After a while, the last lamp should just be starting to light at the end.
If you have a fairly consistent driving cycle (say 10 amphours/day), you'll find you can set the timer for a specific time (like 5 hours) right at the beginning, and will automatically get that 1 hour extra charging time after the regulators light up.
If your cycle isn't that consistent, you'll have to figure out by trial and error how much charge time to select for each depth of discharge.
You can automate this process by adding a light sensor and high/low relay.
=================================================================

I'm working on my first EV conversion, and am wondering if anyone knows of where I could find a good balancer/equalizer BMS for flooded lead acid batteries. It is for a 96 volt pak.

Alternatively, you can look into multiple-bank chargers. Dual Pro makes a 4 by 15A charger that operates as 4 separate 12v smart chargers. Your 96V system would need two of these chargers. These chargers are connected to each 12V battery (or each pair of 6V) and do their charging without having to separate the pack. The electric boat people are very pleased with how this is working and many are switching back from bigger 48V chargers. The Dual Pro is basically a 900W charger

Pro-Mariner makes a 30A charger that will manage 4 different batteries. This charger has the ability to shift amperage to the neediest battery, effectively allowing for 30A of 12v charging if only 1 out of 4 batteries is low, but since the batteries are connected in a pack, that type of unbalance is unlikely. The ProMariner is essentially a 450W charger.  These are around $600

That said, I'm using a 48V Elcon 2000+ with EV Works BMS modules for my lithium pack.

I've also seen some people suggest separate small, inexpensive 12V chargers for each battery. This will perform the same type of balancing as BMS or multi-bank chargers.

 Eric
=================================================================

I have seen this too. How does one go about isolating each individual battery for this?

most of the newer smart chargers are isolated...note the most not all.

You don't have to isolate the batteries when charging, as long as the entire bank is being charged at once.

You can imagine that applying a single 12V charger to part of your battery pack will never complete charging the battery that it is hooked up to because the other batteries that are not charging would be adding load. In this situation, the hooked up battery would be taking considerable abuse by having all the current flowing through it to the other discharged batteries.

But if you had a separate 12V charger attached to each battery, charging all at once, each battery has enough autonomy, even while wired in series, to allow the charger to select the charging phase according to that battery's needs. So the first battery to the constant current cutoff would start the constant voltage phase with decreasing amps, even while it's neighbor was getting still taking full amps. You won't get much cross battery flow since they are all in a charging phase and should be close to the same voltage. Once all the batteries get to the constant voltage phase, there won't be any cross flow, because there is no voltage difference. As each charger drops into the float phase, reduced voltage and amps, there will be some minor cross flow, but since the amps are down across the entire pack, the amount of current flow should be negligible. As long as one charger is pushing current, all of the batteries would stay at a higher than resting voltage, but not really getting any more charge. Once the last charger shut off, the whole pack would return to it's resting voltage.

While there is some room for a massively out-of-balance battery to confuse some of the chargers, this strategy will keep the batteries top balanced by tailoring the charge to each battery, so a dramatically out-of-balance situation would be rare. If you noticed that one charger ran consistently longer than the others, it would indicate a failing cell. This is similar to noting that one battery never hit peak voltage and starting shunting with BMS.

This is why the multi-bank chargers, hooked up to individual batteries that are connected in series (like ours) or parallel (house batteries in RV's and boats) work so well in keeping the batteries in balance.

Eric

Well Eric, have you tried it, this sounds too good to be true but worth investigating I priced some smart chargers as low as 40$.
================================================================

Flooded batteries do not need Equalizers. After 3-stage charging, you finish with an equalizing charge of 3 to 5 amps for a few hours. This bubbles the electrolyte and is a way of dissipating energy as ALL the cells come up to full charge.

The ZIVAN NG3 does ALL this and is isolated.

I have an order out for 9 PowerCheq modules for my 120V pack. Another forum user DONEAL has had success with these balancers (11 of them) for his 144V pack. I'll let you know how they work when I get them. I asked DONEAL how they were working and he said great.

I have a single charger for my 10 AGMs and they get out of balance very quickly.
 
I don't think most people bother with a BMS on a pack of floodies.... if one goes over-voltage at the end of the cycle, it would just gas a little until others caught up.
 
Dan
=================================================================
more people now days are using lithium batteries because of its various advantages. but lead acid batteries are much cheaper. and generally no need BMS.
maybe you can try to use lithium battery pack +BMS+charger
or lead acid battery+elcon charger
elcon charger has high efficiency and overall protection functions.
we can offer this charger to you at very good price.
 
Email:sales.wicom@gmail.com
Skype:sales.evparts
supply lifepo4 batteries+BMS+charger
=============================================================
I'm not sure I would use an equalizer on floodies, but if you AGM/sealed batteries... I wouldn't run without them. I bought these.... awesome....

http://www.hdm-sys.com/pdf/hdm_equalizer_specs.pdf

I have 5 of them on a 192 volt pack. Equalize 5 amps during charge, discharge and idle. I've even heard of them used with mixed batteries.
 
Shiva.
=================================================================

I don't think most people bother with a BMS on a pack of floodies.... if one goes over-voltage at the end of the cycle, it would just gas a little until others caught up.
I did this on my pack of 24 6V batteries and ran them for nearly 9000 miles. A charger that will do an equalization charge is all you need. I have a Zivan NG5 that I used. The end charge was about 181V or 7.54V for a 6V battery. It just wastes a lot of power doing so but so would a BMS I suspect.
=================================================================

MK3SMT Digital Lead Acid Regulator ::: One for each battery, ManzanitaMicro.com, very fancy, lots of cool state of the art digital monitoring stuff  $125 each.

9
Everything else / Re: Lead acid battery bank confusion
« on: December 20, 2021, 06:52:03 PM »
That must have been very welcome news.Glad to hear you sorted it out because it sure enough pointed to shorted cells  and thanks for giving us a chance too hear from Bruce.

I ran across a bit of information that seemed to be worth mentioning. The idea is to run large capacitors in parallel with each battery. The effect being they help smooth out sudden high current loads thereby extending the overall health of the battery bank.

I have often thought about converting my shop to 120 volt DC. just for the experience of learning the ins and outs of battery power. I get a lot of raised eyebrows when I mention I have a 120 volt DC to 120/220 volt AC motor generator set I would more than likely use to start with since the shop would often be idle with no AC load and why could it not be used similar to a startomatic situation.

As long as light bulbs have the right volts they don't care and I imagine there are DC heaters.  It would be nice to be able to build those nice Rudman type regulators.

This a hypothetical thought experiment at this point but on rare occurrences I have found that what seems wrong to begin with turns out to OK in the end.

10
Everything else / Re: Lead acid battery bank confusion
« on: December 18, 2021, 08:08:20 PM »
Very informative point of view from Bruce M, good piece of work, and the link supplied by mike is steller.

If I am reading correctly each battery has its own regulator.  Your view seems to target AGM batteries but I would assume the BMS could be used with Flooded Lead Acid as well ? What do you think of this advertisement. It’s a quote.

(The Battery Balancer equalizes the state of charge of two series connected 12V batteries, or of several parallel strings of series connected batteries. When the charge voltage of a 24V battery system increases to more than 27V, the Battery Balancer will turn on and compare the voltage over the two series connected batteries. The Battery Balancer will draw a current of up to 1A from the battery (or parallel connected batteries) with the highest voltage. The resulting charge current differential will ensure that all batteries will converge to the same state of charge.)

You mention a 120-volt battery system, which I like because of lower current demands. Although I have not been able to source 120 volt AC inverters. 

What about the sealed batteries that are taking over the standard battery market ? If the need to equalize is minimal why not use them. They claim to be immune to fluid loss.


11
General Discussion / fuel tank
« on: August 21, 2021, 07:37:36 PM »
Anybody have experience dealing with holes in the tank? I soldered one hole but there is a rusty area about 2 square inches that could use a patch.

Seems I heard of some substance that can be poured into the tank to fix leaks. The tank is generic so to speak and cannot be easily replaced.

12
Engines / Re: Makeshift repairs and babbit
« on: July 03, 2021, 04:01:00 AM »
That is  for sure a grand amount of information. I am still trying to get it.

13
Engines / Re: Makeshift repairs and babbit
« on: June 28, 2021, 05:00:09 PM »
My mill is not marked but looks like a jet type with a round column that will  swing around  and the tram is, I suppose, fixed. There are no marks to tell me when I am straight out with the deck. Bought used with lots of tooling.

I should check the tram before I do anything about this small bore project. I made up a mandrel for the big end but this is turning out to be too time consuming, needs to be a winter project.

I have a south-bend garage sale lathe with lots of tooling. I consider the thread dial indicator to be a form of magic. One mark for even threads and another mark for odd threads. Metric a whole different story, indicator with several different gears.

Cobbadog, are you going to post what you did to build a indicator ??



14
Engines / Re: Museum Lister D problems
« on: June 25, 2021, 04:28:07 PM »
Sounds like a fuel problem. Have you tried a spot of starting fluid to see if the engine lights up?

Someone has probably already mentioned this but I am too lazy to go back and look. 

When checking for spark it is important to make sure the high voltage spike from the mag or coil has a GOOD ground.
If it doesn't that high energy spike has to go somewhere and it might rupture the coil windings trying to find a ground.

You might get away with it for a while but every time that happens it weakens the coil windings.

Just holding the spark plug against some convenient hunk of metal doesn't always cut it.

Attaching a jumper wire from the plug to a clean shiny spot on the crank case is good insurance.

15
Engines / Re: Makeshift repairs and babbit
« on: June 24, 2021, 07:44:12 AM »
Sorry about that, I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was a factory taper. It was basiclly a question and you answered

it. Highly unlikely, even for some kind of alignment problem.

Also, the actual measurements of the bore were all over the place to some degree and averaged out as a taper.

38ac's explanation of fitting and sizing a bush is good news. I think if I make  mandrels about say three or four inches long

for both bores I should be able to easily determine if the bores are  parallel to each other. If needed I can use his

technique to bring things together.

Did I read somewhere a long time ago that a hone will have a tendency to straighten things out in a bore ?

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 8